Shooting Ruffies and Geese/Ducks...

[*BigSexyHunter*]

Ok so I have seen far to many posts about shooting birds with different guns as being "unsporting"

Tell me this, is shooting a ruffie with a .22 any better than shooting it with a 12 gauge?? And how? I have seen far to many beaks get shot off from a grouse with a .22, and have them scurry away only to be never found again and die of starvation.(believe my, I pursue them) With a 12 gauge I never shoot them in the air personally, it wastes too much meat for my liking. (But don't have any less respect for people that do) I am a meat hunter. So my preferred method is to shoot them with a full choke, and depending on the range shoot above, or at the top of their head. Very seldom do I waste any meat (and people! The wings and legs are the best part!! IMO there should be a fine for wasting the wing and leg meat... That's another discussion on its own) and some times take off their whole head! Point being I either kill it or not. No shooting it and having it take off, with no pecker!

So how is that "unsporting"?

And with ducks and geese... This is an argument that has very good points on both sides, and i'm not saying any point is unsporting or wrong. With that being said, I do and will continue to shoot geese and ducks while they are sitting with my 12 gauge. As stated above, I am primarily a meat hunter. When sitting in a blind I wont let them land, simply because I don't want to ruin my decoys. But when sneaking up on them, I will take them while they are swimming/standing/sitting, as I can make a better placed shot at the head with a cleaner, more humane, shot with little no no meat wasted. (Again, the thighs are the best part! IMO there should also be a fine for not taking these, if you kill it, use it. This is like only taking the backstraps off a deer, but you wouldn't do that!)

So does my opinions and methods of hunting make me "un ethical" or "un sporting" Maybe to you it does. Just wanted some other opinions... Not intended to start an angry feud or anything. Just need to understand why people think its such a bad thing...

I'm done ranting for the day, I promise! Guy at work just told me to calm down or else I was going to break the keyboard! Us Power Engineers have a lot of free time... to rant!!

[catnthehat]

I don't use a .22 for ruffed grouse as a hunter, but when I was trapping on a fly in line I did.
To me it doesn't matter as long as it is legal, it is how one uses the gun, not what they are using.

Cat

[Foxton Gundogs]

This is my opinion it is a strong one. I shoot grouse and rabbits for camp meat with a 22, IMO it is meat hunting plain and simple. If I am hunting upland birds its wing shooting over my dogs with a 12, 20 or 28ga, no exceptions. For waterfowl IMO ground/water sluicing is not waterfowl hunting it's simply trying to kill birds. There are lots of times we will bring birds into the deeks let them land that's part of the challenge BUT we shoot them on the 'jump' IMO its not Kosher and hard on deeks to do otherwise. The only acceptable time to water sluice a bird is on big water with an escaping cripple, if it may put your dog in danger or risk loosing the bird then swat it. If I was to ever start swatting sitting birds with a shotgun I'm sure my Gramps would reach out from his duck blind beyond and swat me in the ear. All that being said if it's legal it isn't wrong just not what I ever want to do nor would I share a blind with someone who does..

[rugatika]

As long as it's legal I have no problems with however anyone wants to put meat on their table, and I don't think too highly of anyone that thinks they're superior to someone else for how they hunt. (legally of course)

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by rugatika

As long as it's legal I have no problems with however anyone wants to put meat on their table, and I don't think too highly of anyone that thinks they're superior to someone else for how they hunt. (legally of course)

Exactly, I don't have to hunt for meat anymore that am not trapping, but enjoy hunting over a dog with vintage guns, sub gauge guns, and muzzle loaders.
Doesn't bother me if someone I am with is using a semi until they tell me I SHOULD be using one too because they are better!!

Over the years I have been told by people that every danged shotgun own is no good, depending on what those people were shooting or how they thought others should shoot and what they should use!!
Cat

[Pikebreath]

I have no problem with the original poster's comments on hunting grouse with 22s or "head shots" on sitting ducks,,, but,,,

I do have some problems with "if it's legal, it's fine" attitude though... It is legal to have consensual sex with a 16 year old baby sitter,, but that may not go over well with the mother of your child,,,, or the babysitter's mother for that matter!!!

Extreme example perhaps, but fence lining someone's decoy spread from the roadside ditch is also legal, and I do think most hunters would agree it's not particularly ethical.

To me, it's a "no harm, no foul" as well as "within the law" issue.

[drake]

So much hypocracy in the OPs post....not worth a reply. I'm glad the OPs "ethics" work for him.

[Hair trigger]

I don't judge or care quite frankly. But if your hunting Waterfowl with our tight group it would not be supported at all. Just the way our Dads taught us and the way we are teaching our kids.

All the best

HT

[Groundhogger]

The only birds I hunt ARE grouse, so I'll comment on that.

Sounds like the question is more of one about approach~not ethics. Both are legal, both work, but you have your approach..someone else has theirs. Here in Ontario, I've heard numerous guys belittle hunters who (like me) shoot grouse on the spot~whether they're sitting on a tree branch, pecking at gravel on the edge of a quarry, or on the wing if I've spooked them. I've heard terms like "ground swatting" to describe shooting a bird on the ground, so I sometimes imagine these guys pursue the sport in a tweed jacket, pipe in mouth, toting an English-made double, over a highly-trained pure-bred pointer! THAT approach doesn't bother me one bit but somehow, THEIR version of how I hunt bothers them. Strange.

As for what I find effective~I think it's a function of how many birds I encounter, and how choosy I feel I can be. I can quite honestly walk for 6 hours and see 1 bird, no bird, 5 birds~never the same one hunt to the next. To add to that, I have to drive at least 2 hours to be in an area where I'll even find them. They're few and far between, and VERY skittish. In the last 2 years, I've been hunting with a 22", cylinder-bore 20ga. 870 pump, #7-1/2 shot. I've found it to be the most effective for where I'm likely to find them, and at the distances I encounter them. It's a bad barrel for wing shots (if my last 2 misses are any indication ) but for sitting birds, I haven't found more than 3 pellets in the breast meat. If I saw 10-12 sitting birds a day, and they were as dumb as the ones I've seen on YouTube videos standing there while an archer sets-up 15' from them~I might be inclined to try a .22 or my .17M2, but since that ain't the case where I hunt, shotgun it is!

Since all that made me hungry, I'll show you a photo of that gun, and the last bird I got with it;

[*BigSexyHunter*]

Originally Posted by Groundhogger

The only birds I hunt ARE grouse, so I'll comment on that.

Sounds like the question is more of one about approach~not ethics. Both are legal, both work, but you have your approach..someone else has theirs. Here in Ontario, I've heard numerous guys belittle hunters who (like me) shoot grouse on the spot~whether they're sitting on a tree branch, pecking at gravel on the edge of a quarry, or on the wing if I've spooked them. I've heard terms like "ground swatting" to describe shooting a bird on the ground, so I sometimes imagine these guys pursue the sport in a tweed jacket, pipe in mouth, toting an English-made double, over a highly-trained pure-bred pointer! THAT approach doesn't bother me one bit but somehow, THEIR version of how I hunt bothers them. Strange.

As for what I find effective~I think it's a function of how many birds I encounter, and how choosy I feel I can be. I can quite honestly walk for 6 hours and see 1 bird, no bird, 5 birds~never the same one hunt to the next. To add to that, I have to drive at least 2 hours to be in an area where I'll even find them. They're few and far between, and VERY skittish. In the last 2 years, I've been hunting with a 22", cylinder-bore 20ga. 870 pump, #7-1/2 shot. I've found it to be the most effective for where I'm likely to find them, and at the distances I encounter them. It's a bad barrel for wing shots (if my last 2 misses are any indication ) but for sitting birds, I haven't found more than 3 pellets in the breast meat. If I saw 10-12 sitting birds a day, and they were as dumb as the ones I've seen on YouTube videos standing there while an archer sets-up 15' from them~I might be inclined to try a .22 or my .17M2, but since that ain't the case where I hunt, shotgun it is!

Since all that made me hungry, I'll show you a photo of that gun, and the last bird I got with it;

^^This is exactly what i was looking for, somebody to prove me wrong, and give me other reasons to think otherwise, you kind sir have done that, and I thank you^^

And maybe its because I grew up on a farm, in the country where they live in my yard, and I only have to walk 300yds to prime ruffie country. I guess my view would change if is was an all day event, and had to spend all that time and money.

Its just I have shot lots of ducks, geese on the fly, and a couple ruffies, and some are so shou-up that you cant clean them due to them looking like they went through a tree mulcher...

This is exactly what i was looking for, somebody to prove me wrong, and give me other reasons to think otherwise, you kind sir have done that, and I thank you

[nekred]

How about you do what you want I do what i want within confines of law and at the end of the day we shake hands have a beer and enjoy our supper and not discuss our personal ethics....

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by *BigSexyHunter*

So does my opinions and methods of hunting make me "un ethical" or "un sporting"

I may do things different than you, but I do not wish to impose my way on you. I expect the same from you in relation to the way I do things! If you're not doing anything illegal as far as I am concerned we are kool

[wwbirds]

Have to agree cant transfer ethics or values to another person. What is unsporting for me to do is totally fine for many others.
Of course there are other factors at play here I agree children should succeed in their hunts and should not be held to such a high standard as experienced wing shooters.

having said that however if I ever saw a ranked shooter like "covey" bust a bird on the ground or water he knows he would never hear the end of it.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

having said that however if I ever saw a ranked shooter like "covey" bust a bird on the ground or water he knows he would never hear the end of it.

Now I am feeling guilty. I was about to answer Lefty-Canuck's question by choosing "step on it and harvest it without firing a shot?": Bottom line for me is if I want to eat pheasant or feel sporting? I think I might just save this bird from being coyote food and make up my mind to be sporting later No ground swatting for me though!

[wwbirds]

Easy for me to tie up a roosters wings and tie him to the underbrush.

[Attilathecanuk]

I shot quite a few ruffies last fall and the way I hunt is trail walking with my .410 SXS. Rarely do I flush them as I get close enough to do the headshot. To me (no offence to bird dogs) it is plenty sporting and I don't need a dog to find them. The few times I have been though, hunting over dogs was great fun!