My lake ice safety thread

[gor]

Every year people put their vehicles through the ice. Two in the last week at Newell. In most cases it seems guys from out of town driving where most locals know you should not drive. Please post your local lake and the do not drive areas. This might help keep guys from out of town dry. Please proceed with caution even if you do not see a warning on this thread. Please put your watering hole in the title box.

[gor]

South east corner where water empties into rolling hills reservoir. No left turns in mouth of little Rainer draw. Soft by island and north shore. Do not drive out or in front of mouth of north marina. Between islands in front of bird sanctuary south of jack fish bay. Not between two island anywhere. Please add any other info you have.

[Talking moose]

I know battle and Devils have springs. No clue where they are though...

[fish99]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

I know battle and Devils have springs. No clue where they are though...

lots of places were run off enters the lake these are the bad spots to drive close to on battle..

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by fish99

lots of places were run off enters the lake these are the bad spots to drive close to on battle..

So out in the middle would be safer than close to shoreline on battle? Is that safe to assume?

[fish99]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

So out in the middle would be safer than close to shoreline on battle? Is that safe to assume?

yes the deeper water and or farther from shore is better on battle. once the ice is set up.

[cube]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

So out in the middle would be safer than close to shoreline on battle? Is that safe to assume?

In all lakes after the deep water Ice is of sufficient thickness. If you look back in AO most of the photo's or reports are of trucks over shallow water.

[PlayDoh]

This is Alberta based.

Originally Posted by PlayDoh

Here are some charts I found pertaining to ice safety. These go beyond most I've found online and have different thicknesses for traveling and parking, which I never thought of. Apparently after 2 hours the ice begins to sag.





Source
https://work.alberta.ca/documents/WHS-PUB_sh011.pdf

[PlayDoh]

I was at Badger and followed tracks and parked 50 yards from a 1 ton in between 4 shacks. Turns out I ended up on top of a gas spring and the ice was completely full of air.
Gave me the willies, and I counted my blessings. I won't be driving on any more lakes for the rest of this winter, if ever again.
Drive and drill every so often doesn't really work IMO. 20 yards away from where I stopped the ice was good and black.
I'm never really that far from shore and I have a quad or could use the exercise.

RISK vs REWARD. Bottom line.

[Sooner]

If you have ever been to the fish derbies they held at Pigeon, you will see how much ice can hold. The parking lot on the ice had a lot of trucks side by side.

It's been 20 + yrs since i and the GF(wife now) went through on sleds. Still get nervous at times, avoid driving on most times unless I have a dedicated trail. I use my sleds and a big plastic sleigh 99% of the time when Ice fishing. Especially the last couple years with this wonky weather.

[PlayDoh]

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." - Mark Twain

[MoFugger21]

Originally Posted by anthony5

No luck involved, just have been doing this for a few years and would not knowingly put myself or others in an unsafe position on a frozen lake. 15" of good ice on the northeast arm of Travers north of the spillway for anyone inquiring.

Originally Posted by PlayDoh

At the 'bridge' across the south end of McGregor there's open water. That's only a couple KM's from where you were.
I know it's not open from just warm weather, but it still shows how the ice isn't much more than the minimum thickness.
It's like rope. There's a safe working load and a braking load weight. Would you stand under a heavy load that was anywhere above the safe working load?
There's lots of things you can "get away with" that just aren't safe. Safe as in your almost without a doubt not getting hurt.
I've done my fair share of unsafe things so I'm not pointing fingers here. I've found its better to ask yourself what the Risk vs Reward is. What do you really gain by driving on the ice? If something did happen would you kick yourself for not playing it safe?
This is one of those years where the risk is real.

Originally Posted by lovich12

This comment is silly. The bridge at Mcgregor and the north east end of Travers are 2 completely different water bodies. As well as 2 completely different scenario's. The bridge at Mcgregor has a current running through it. There IS NO CURRENT running through the northeast end of Travers, this time of year.

Originally Posted by PlayDoh

That's laughable. Their connected genius. In fact it would be hard to find two bodies of water that were more alike. Their fed from the same source, similar depths and size, and separated by a km. One could argue their the same water body.
Man, some people argue anything in order to defend their actions.
We haven't had one day of -30 and only a few of -20 or less. Do you think that water would be open if the winter wasn't this mild? Also I did state, to be clear and avoid defending my post from this, that it wasn't open from the weather alone. Why state the obvious, when I've already stated it? Especially when that's your only point.

PlayDoh, you should look at a map before using your condescending tone.

Yes, you are right in that there is normally open water under the bridge going over McGregor. But the north east arm of Travers (where the spillway is) IS NOT part of McGregor. It is not a "few KM's" from the Hwy 531 bridge.

If you'd like to argue this, please provide a map with arrows pointing out where you believe the two locations are.


And sorry, but when it comes to what some government document says is safe vs experience, I'll take the experience. But that's just me...

[anthony5]

Jet, maybe you should read a little more of the info that is in this thread already. I am not alone in understanding how to read the ice in a certain area, and luck nor ego plays any part. Good luck fishing😎

[MoFugger21]

Actually Playdoh, I'll provide you the map. Looks like more than a "few KMs" to me...

[Talking moose]

I will take the word of the guy that has been fishing the lake for the last 40 years over some snot nose kid fresh from skool who just finished crunching some numbers.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Jet

Hardly some snot nosed kid fresh from "school":

http://norexice.com/
Sam Proskin, NOR-EX Ice Engineering Inc. P.Eng, Ph.D
Al Fitzgerald, NOR-EX Ice Engineering Inc. P.Eng
Combined, that's over 100 years of experience, 3 engineering degrees and a
Ph.D. + the numerous other experienced people involved in creating that
document.

Norexice are also responsible for a number large contracts related to ice safety.

But you'd actually have to read the document to learn that wouldn't you.

The guy who has 40 years experience in this case, over estimates and believes it's okay to fit as many heavy vehicles in a small piece of ice as he can and doesn't have any qualification apart from his experience.

Over the period of 1991 to 2000, there were 447 deaths associated with activities on ice. Of these, 246 involved snowmobiles, 150 involved non-motorized activity and 51 motorized vehicles. Most of the deaths associated with activities on ice were related to recreational activities. (Canadian Red Cross Society 2006). - And that doesn't count the number of vehicles lost and injuries.

Don't make yourself or others a statistic. (well definitely not others).
And consider the impact those deaths have had on the families and friends.
The resources are there, read em, it may safe your life one day.

No ice is ever safe, but there are ways to be as safe a possible and overloading it isn't one of them.

The guy who puts his head in the lion cage, prods it with a stick and thinks it safe, will probably learn one day it's a dumb thing to do. His experience tells him he hasn't been eaten yet, so it's safe, his ego is reinforced by during a dangerous thing and beating the odds. But the Lion don't care about that, he's just hungry.

Those deaths you quoted were "on" the ice. Not "under" the ice.

[MoFugger21]

Originally Posted by Jet

...
No ice is ever safe, but there are ways to be as safe a possible and overloading it isn't one of them.
...

You want to be as safe as possible, never go onto the ice. Problem solved. Actually, never leave your house. Good grief...

[PlayDoh]

Originally Posted by MoFugger21

Actually Playdoh, I'll provide you the map. Looks like more than a "few KMs" to me...

Wow, you guys crack me up. Your right it's what 10-15-20 KMs? That's not a "few", that's what than? Is the water that freezes 20 KMs apart going to be really any different from each other?

Talk about condescending. Maybe read your own tone. I was defending my post from being called silly in a condescending tone, so not sure what you expected.

You can point out Semantics, and irrelevant points all you want, but if your under the impression it makes you look like anything but a troll, think otherwise.

How thick is the ice at McGregor? How thick is it on Travers? What part of my point confused you and made you feel the need to be a ***** and try to make me look foolish?

Moreover even if I was wrong and confused Keho for Travers, I'm trying to help people be safe by sharing my observations and opinions. The ice is at the minimum thickness to drive on, use caution. FFS it's not that hard to understand is it?

[MoFugger21]

Originally Posted by PlayDoh

Wow, you guys crack me up. Your right it's what 10-15-20 KMs? That's not a "few", that's what than? Is the water that freezes 20 KMs apart going to be really any different from each other?

When trying to compare ice under/near the causeway or "bridge" to ice in the NE arm of Travers near the spillway, yes. Yes it really is going to be that different from each other.... Your post made it sound like you thought he was fishing just south of the Lomond highway, near the open water...

[PlayDoh]

I didn't "compare" it. I just stated the fact of it. When I see open water anywhere I know it hasn't been all that cold.
The Bow River has running water, yet if it's cold enough it will freeze over. If not you will see open water.
Again I'm just sharing what I seen, so someone can make a more informed decision on their own safety.
How and why do you guys presume people are "telling you what to do"? Drive a dump truck on the lake if you want. Yet if you do so, and drive close enough to someone else, realize your putting them at risk.
Easy enough to understand here.

[MoFugger21]

Originally Posted by PlayDoh

I didn't "compare" it. I just stated the fact of it. When I see open water anywhere I know it hasn't been all that cold.
The Bow River has running water, yet if it's cold enough it will freeze over. If not you will see open water.

And the fact of it is, (spoken from experience, which I guess doesn't matter around here to some....) even if there is open water under/near the Lomond causeway on McGregor, does not mean that the ice is not safe on Travers. Two COMPLETELY different scenarios/situations there.

Fact: I once saw a tiger in Calgary. Not Fact: Because I saw a tiger in Calgary, tigers must live in and around where I first saw it.

Fact: There is open water on McGregor under the causeway. Not Fact: Because there is open water on McGregor under the causeway, the ice within a 20km radium of said open water is not safe.

[PlayDoh]

Who said it wasn't safe? I give up.

[MoFugger21]

Originally Posted by anthony5

No luck involved, just have been doing this for a few years and would not knowingly put myself or others in an unsafe position on a frozen lake. 15" of good ice on the northeast arm of Travers north of the spillway for anyone inquiring.

Originally Posted by PlayDoh

At the 'bridge' across the south end of McGregor there's open water. That's only a couple KM's from where you were.
I know it's not open from just warm weather, but it still shows how the ice isn't much more than the minimum thickness.
It's like rope. There's a safe working load and a braking load weight. Would you stand under a heavy load that was anywhere above the safe working load?
There's lots of things you can "get away with" that just aren't safe. Safe as in your almost without a doubt not getting hurt.
I've done my fair share of unsafe things so I'm not pointing fingers here. I've found its better to ask yourself what the Risk vs Reward is. What do you really gain by driving on the ice? If something did happen would you kick yourself for not playing it safe?
This is one of those years where the risk is real.

Your reply above is in response to anthony5's post (as you had quoted it)... In this post, it sure sounds like you are saying exactly what I described in my previous post.

[anthony5]

Originally Posted by Jet

Well, looks like he is. And from the amount RavYak goes fishing, looks like he's successful at it too. A good job there are engineers and people who bother to educate themselves.

You wouldn't even be ice fishing, have a flasher and have the ability to put your truck through the ice or drive to the lake if it wasn't for engineers.

Bottom line, if you can't be bothered to educate yourself and ignore the information present to you, don't pretend you
know what you obviously don't, don't preach misinformation to people
with less experience, it's dangerous, infact it's life threatening.

If someone falls through the ice because you are telling him it's safe when you're unqualified, then it's your fault.

Nobody cares if you fall through the ice (except maybe your ego and family),
(Darwin award comes to mind), but when you put others at risk,
that's different. I bet you think it's acceptable to drive drunk too, because alcohol don't effect you.

Would really like to comment here but I guess my years of experience and not having studied a bunch of numbers about clear ice means nothing to some. Never have and never will put someone else's life in danger and the people I fish with know that. Comment about my on ice tactics,fine. But the rest of this post shows no class on your part whatsoever.

[Talking moose]

Fear. Healthy fear.
Fear. Unreasonable fear.
There is a line and it fluctuates on both sides.
It is what it is for each individual.
Peoples comfort zones vary.

Fire.

[lovich12]

Originally Posted by Jet

Well, looks like he is. And from the amount RavYak goes fishing, looks like he's successful at it too. A good job there are engineers and people who bother to educate themselves.

You wouldn't even be ice fishing, have a flasher and have the ability to put your truck through the ice or drive to the lake if it wasn't for engineers.

Bottom line, if you can't be bothered to educate yourself and ignore the information present to you, don't pretend you
know what you obviously don't, don't preach misinformation to people
with less experience, it's dangerous, infact it's life threatening.

If someone falls through the ice because you are telling him it's safe when you're unqualified, then it's your fault.

Nobody cares if you fall through the ice (except maybe your ego and family),
(Darwin award comes to mind), but when you put others at risk,
that's different. I bet you think it's acceptable to drive drunk too, because alcohol don't effect you.

Wow, that last comment was unnecessary. Whether it was an example or not, a pretty s****y thing to say.

As a side note, I'm curious to know, what do you think about my 3/4 ton sitting on 13" of ice today? For 5 hours? Without a crack or groan? That being said, I'm not telling people to to drive on 13" of ice, if it's not in their comfort zone.

[anthony5]

Originally Posted by Jet

Endangering others by DUI is morally unacceptable and offensive, but endangering others ice fishing is not? Personally I don't see a difference, they both can kill and injure.

As to putting your 3/4 ton on 13" of ice for 5 hours, knock yourself out, it's your truck. I'm curious to know at what point lovich considers there's isn't enough ice for his truck, 12, 10, 8?

I guess nobody will care too much if you don't endanger them other than "You saw that guy with the 3/4 ton on 13" of ice", and maybe one day you'll be entertainment with a photo of another truck through the ice at lake X on this forum.

Checkout this Alberta Pro, he seems to get it and wouldn't put his 1/2 ton on 13 inches:
http://www.worldfishingnetwork.com/t...safety-comfort

Jet, you just don't get it do you, you are out of your league, give it up, don't matter how many #'s or letters you have attached to your handle🙄

[lovich12]

Originally Posted by Jet

Endangering others by DUI is morally unacceptable and offensive, but endangering others ice fishing is not? Personally I don't see a difference, they both can kill and injure.

As to putting your 3/4 ton on 13" of ice for 5 hours, knock yourself out, it's your truck. I'm curious to know at what point lovich considers there's isn't enough ice for his truck, 12, 10, 8?

I guess nobody will care too much if you don't endanger them other than "You saw that guy with the 3/4 ton on 13" of ice", and maybe one day you'll be entertainment with a photo of another truck through the ice at lake X on this forum.

Checkout this Alberta Pro, he seems to get it and wouldn't put his 1/2 ton on 13 inches:
http://www.worldfishingnetwork.com/t...safety-comfort

You do you, Jet. You do you buddy!!

[MoFugger21]

I'm not sure how I missed this post the first go-round.... What a mess...

Originally Posted by Jet

Well, looks like he is. And from the amount RavYak goes fishing, looks like he's successful at it too. A good job there are engineers and people who bother to educate themselves.

You wouldn't even be ice fishing, have a flasher and have the ability to put your truck through the ice or drive to the lake if it wasn't for engineers.

Actually, I don't use a flasher, but sure....

Are you an engineer as well? Did you design the truck that we are attempting to put through the ice? Would you like hugs and bum squeezes for being so awesome and smart?

Originally Posted by Jet

Bottom line, if you can't be bothered to educate yourself and ignore the information present to you, don't pretend you
know what you obviously don't, don't preach misinformation to people
with less experience, it's dangerous, infact it's life threatening.

a) How is having decades worth of experience on certain lakes not being educated? You make it seem as though anyone who isn't following your safety chart is being reckless and is automatically endangering the lives of anyone on the lake anywhere... Give your head a shake.

b) I don't need a book and a calculator and a forum safety hero to tell me what I need to know about the ice that I fish on. That comes with fishing the area consistently throughout the winter and knowing the ice depth and knowing the lake, which you don't seem to comprehend... Which is weird, because apparently in your mind you are the smartest person on the planet and everyone needs to heed your advice...

Originally Posted by Jet

If someone falls through the ice because you are telling him it's safe when you're unqualified, then it's your fault.

You need to get this through your thick skull.... No one is telling anyone what is safe. I believe "make your own judgement call" has been the overwhelming theme of this thread.

And actually, if someone takes your chart and know-how and what you say as gospel, drives to a lake, punches a couple of holes to see the ice is 28" thick, pulls out their calculator to see that "yes, even according to Jet, it is safe to drive and park on", and then drives another 100 yards and dumps their vehicle in the lake because the ice is only 8" thick due to the natural spring in that spot that the the locals know about... Then according to your logic, that is your fault...?

Originally Posted by Jet

Nobody cares if you fall through the ice (except maybe your ego and family),
(Darwin award comes to mind), but when you put others at risk,
that's different. I bet you think it's acceptable to drive drunk too, because alcohol don't effect you.

I shouldn't even dignify this with a response... What a completely baseless claim that shows more about you as a person, than it says about me.

[PlayDoh]

I think it's time we all agree to disagree. Mud slinging only furthers the argument.