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08-22-2015, 08:52 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 1,796
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Bull Trout spawning stream at risk
Folks,
An article in the Red Deer Advocate.
http://www.reddeeradvocate.com/news/...ref_map=%5B%5D
It is worth noting that legal fishing has been banned for some time. Fishermen have done their part.
Don
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08-22-2015, 10:11 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 20
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What a disgrace. They really need to start handing out a lot more of those $25,000 fines.
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08-22-2015, 11:49 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,186
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It is very possible those idiot ohv users are going to get everyone banned altogether from motorized access to the foothills. Like most, I don't have a problem with ohv's but there is too many bad apples who are simply too stupid to change. One of those rare cases where more restriction is a good thing.
__________________
“Nothing is more persistent than a liberal with a dumb idea” - Ebrand
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08-22-2015, 02:59 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Albert
Posts: 148
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The creek's too important of a spawning habitat to fish so we rightly close it and yet we don't have the respect to keep our atv's away. Piece by piece we're destroying our natural habitat and species. Brutal.
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08-23-2015, 07:21 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: edmonton
Posts: 504
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Designate areas for OHV's or ban them outright.
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08-23-2015, 09:43 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,262
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I was taken out to that trail once. Will never ride it again because of all the creek crossing the trail has. Beautiful area and great ride, horrible area for impact. Will never ride again there.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huntinstuff
Attention Anti Hunters
Sit back
Pour yourself a tea
Watch us "sportsmen" attack each other and destroy ourselves from within.
From road hunters vs "real hunters" to bowhunters vs rifle hunters, long bows and recurves vs compound user to bow vs crossbow to white hunters vs Native hunters etc etc etc
.....
Enjoy the easy ride, anti hunters. Strange to me why we seem to be doing your job for you.
Excuse me while I go puke.
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08-23-2015, 01:22 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Prince George, BC
Posts: 1,190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipco
Designate areas for OHV's or ban them outright.
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Yeup.
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08-24-2015, 06:49 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: CNP
Posts: 3,769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipco
Designate areas for OHV's or ban them outright.
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We need to be fair and impartial.
Designate areas motorized or ban them completely. It is so nice to be in areas where no motorized vehicles are at all and it thins the people out.
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You are what you do, not what you say.
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08-24-2015, 05:21 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipco
Designate areas for OHV's or ban them outright.
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Seems reasonable enough to me.
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08-25-2015, 10:27 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Red Deer
Posts: 62
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regulations
Well hopefully with the new gov't they will ban these things outright or make a fenced in area that has pits and mud and all the stupid stuff people do on these machines. The vast majority of owners just want to play in mud, so build a huge rec area with all that garbage and let them have at it. Why let them go out and destroy the west ? Some provinces have laws that limit their use to old logging roads and hard surfaces only. They need to increase fines so that the owners can't afford to keep these stupid, useless machines. OHV owners have no right to destroy any habitat, ever, period. IMO it's too late now anyway, most of the west has been chewed up beyond repair.
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08-25-2015, 01:10 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 11
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we should put a crew together and fix it up...maybe make a temp log bridge and put some signs ?
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08-25-2015, 02:16 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 9,695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exploits
Well hopefully with the new gov't they will ban these things outright or make a fenced in area that has pits and mud and all the stupid stuff people do on these machines. The vast majority of owners just want to play in mud, so build a huge rec area with all that garbage and let them have at it. Why let them go out and destroy the west ? Some provinces have laws that limit their use to old logging roads and hard surfaces only. They need to increase fines so that the owners can't afford to keep these stupid, useless machines. OHV owners have no right to destroy any habitat, ever, period. IMO it's too late now anyway, most of the west has been chewed up beyond repair.
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I think you wrong Imo. I say the majority are respectful and tread lightly. It's the you tube warriors that will wreck it for the rest of us who actually try to avoid damaging where we ride.
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08-25-2015, 01:17 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,050
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipco
Designate areas for OHV's or ban them outright.
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and there's the solution
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08-26-2015, 02:45 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Albert
Posts: 148
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We definitely need to restrict the use of OHV's more. I just spent a week in Willmore where no motorized vehicles are permitted and the area is pristine. Trails with minimal footprint, no garbage, beautiful area. Huge contrast from areas heavily used by OHV's.
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08-26-2015, 10:27 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 1,796
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Super G,
An effort was made by fishermen to reduce damage by paying for and installing bridges and signage. The motorized bunch took offence. Both signs and bridges are gone - some through flooding and some through vandalism.
The logging company has made efforts to reduce access. The quads just bypass the gate.
Falls Creek has been recognized for many years as critical spawning habitat to the North Sask. River.
There have been several things done:
1) closure to fishing for bull trout.
2) followed by closure to fishing for anything
3) access closures during very wet periods.
And Lannie, it appears that fishermen have done more than any others to deal with the issue that they didn't create or endorce. When are those responsible going to do their part? This multi-user crap just plain doesn't work.
Until Govt requires OHV's to pay to play c/w enforcement, nothing will get done.
And just to illustrate, west of Rocky, the number of tickets handed out to "recreational users" for various illegal activities was over 900 since the first of the year.
OH, the joys of living along the eastern slopes.
Don
Last edited by Don Andersen; 08-26-2015 at 10:36 AM.
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08-26-2015, 10:30 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Uh, guess? :)
Posts: 26,739
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Fisherman: Not the problem
OHV users: somewhat part of the problem
Unfettered industrial and resource development: most of the problem.
IMHO anyway. We could ban fishing and OHV's altogether and our fisheries will still disappear.
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08-26-2015, 10:39 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 1,796
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okotokian
Fisherman: Not the problem
OHV users: somewhat part of the problem
Unfettered industrial and resource development: most of the problem.
IMHO anyway. We could ban fishing and OHV's altogether and our fisheries will still disappear.
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BS - the same guys would get canned for performing on weekdays like they do on weekends. No company would tolerate the blatant disregard for the environment where it works.
Don
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08-27-2015, 10:32 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Uh, guess? :)
Posts: 26,739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Andersen
BS - the same guys would get canned for performing on weekdays like they do on weekends. No company would tolerate the blatant disregard for the environment where it works.
Don
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Are you serious? You think OHV's cause more damage than hanging culverts, bridges and roads over the streams, clear cutting and resource development and gravel extraction that causes silt and other things to clog the streams. That quad riders do more damage than oil sands extraction and tailing ponds??
I should note I was talking about fish habitat generally, not necessarily that little section of the stream shown. Perhaps that is where the confusion and your comment is coming from. I wasn't trying to say that those sets of tire tracks were from industrial workers.
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08-26-2015, 08:43 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: CNP
Posts: 3,769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okotokian
Fisherman: Not the problem
OHV users: somewhat part of the problem
Unfettered industrial and resource development: most of the problem.
IMHO anyway. We could ban fishing and OHV's altogether and our fisheries will still disappear.
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I agree with most of this but I believe fisherman ruin habitat too and kill many fish directly and indirectly.
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You are what you do, not what you say.
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08-26-2015, 08:52 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lannie
I agree with most of this but I believe fisherman ruin habitat too and kill many fish directly and indirectly.
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Lannie, how do fisherman ruin habitat?
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08-29-2015, 05:44 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Albert
Posts: 148
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This attitude of leave my atv pastime alone, I've been doing it for years, I'm not the problem... The truth is atv's do destroy streams, it's as simple as that.
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08-29-2015, 08:02 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,453
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Don't worry Tall Texan. At seven posts on here I doubt you will make 15 before being banned. That is my prediction.
Lannie is another deflection tool. Blame the Government???? Talk about changing the topic to something that no one can put a finger on. How about we solve some of the problems we can before making it a universe of problems. That is how you get things done in any situation.
Do either of you own any land...I'm talking one that is large enough for others to quad on? If you did, you would realize (1) the damage the do first hand, (2) the "follow the leader" mentality it seems to create for both the good and bad intentioned quaders (e.g. Oh looks, a quad trail, let's use it. Must be fine as others have.), and (3) the lawlessness that ensures, (4) the noise pollution it creates that other users never asked for.
I've met both types on my land. The ones that are bad have their picture taken and sent to the local Sherriff for prosecution and the ones that are actually good or too stupid to know better are confronted with the reality of what they are doing.
I do own a quad and I do not use it for stream fishing. I use it for fencing and other farming activities. I would rather walk a stream and enjoy nature then plow through it on an ATV.
FlyTheory, don't take bake your comments because you are right. People like to deflect the issue and you are making your comments with the best of intention. I like what you said. Thanks.
Thanks to Don as well for bringing this ongoing issue forwards.
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08-29-2015, 08:20 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNAPFisher
Don't worry Tall Texan. At seven posts on here I doubt you will make 15 before being banned. That is my prediction.
Lannie is another deflection tool. Blame the Government???? Talk about changing the topic to something that no one can put a finger on. How about we solve some of the problems we can before making it a universe of problems. That is how you get things done in any situation.
Do either of you own any land...I'm talking one that is large enough for others to quad on? If you did, you would realize (1) the damage the do first hand, (2) the "follow the leader" mentality it seems to create for both the good and bad intentioned quaders (e.g. Oh looks, a quad trail, let's use it. Must be fine as others have.), and (3) the lawlessness that ensures, (4) the noise pollution it creates that other users never asked for.
I've met both types on my land. The ones that are bad have their picture taken and sent to the local Sherriff for prosecution and the ones that are actually good or too stupid to know better are confronted with the reality of what they are doing.
I do own a quad and I do not use it for stream fishing. I use it for fencing and other farming activities. I would rather walk a stream and enjoy nature then plow through it on an ATV.
FlyTheory, don't take bake your comments because you are right. People like to deflect the issue and you are making your comments with the best of intention. I like what you said. Thanks.
Thanks to Don as well for bringing this ongoing issue forwards.
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Banned? For what? Not buying into the propaganda [bs] you and guys like Fly Theory are trying to peddle. You are so narrow minded it's unbelievable! Hope you enjoy your next hike down to the forks of the Ram - pack a big lunch, you will have lots of time to enjoy nature.
Yes, I do own land, and yes I allow atv use with no problems to date. Sorry
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08-29-2015, 08:49 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall Texan
Banned? For what? Not buying into the propaganda [bs] you and guys like Fly Theory are trying to peddle. You are so narrow minded it's unbelievable! Hope you enjoy your next hike down to the forks of the Ram - pack a big lunch, you will have lots of time to enjoy nature.
Yes, I do own land, and yes I allow atv use with no problems to date. Sorry
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Oh, you are legit? My mistake. I thought you were just another addy that some use. Welcome to AO!
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08-29-2015, 11:39 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 1,484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall Texan
Banned? For what? Not buying into the propaganda [bs] you and guys like Fly Theory are trying to peddle. You are so narrow minded it's unbelievable! Hope you enjoy your next hike down to the forks of the Ram - pack a big lunch, you will have lots of time to enjoy nature.
Yes, I do own land, and yes I allow atv use with no problems to date. Sorry
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Hmm... Yes we are spewing so much, inaccurate, untrue, not-backed-up-by-science, propaganda that goes against common sense... You do realize that SNAPfisher and I are looking at the big picture. That's so ironic since we're so narrow minded... I try not to be a dick to people on here but come on, in this situation and being attacked I don't feel so bad. Maybe I'm asking for it, but it had to be said. Thanks SNAPfisher, glad you've got a brain haha.
Mistagin you have my empathy
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08-30-2015, 10:32 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyTheory
Hmm... Yes we are spewing so much, inaccurate, untrue, not-backed-up-by-science, propaganda that goes against common sense... You do realize that SNAPfisher and I are looking at the big picture. That's so ironic since we're so narrow minded... I try not to be a dick to people on here but come on, in this situation and being attacked I don't feel so bad. Maybe I'm asking for it, but it had to be said. Thanks SNAPfisher, glad you've got a brain haha.
Mistagin you have my empathy
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In a previous post I made it absolutely clear the bull trout section of Falls creek had to be shut down to atv use period. In comparing the relative damage done by atv's to that of industry I believe there is no comparison - that's my "big picture". I don't believe Falls creek will survive flooding given the unbelievable amount of clear cutting done at and around it's headwaters. Look at the difference in the North Ram now as compared to pre flooding, and that's with minimal clear cutting in it's
watershed.
Neither Crocker or the article deserve a minute of anyone's time, he could solve the atv portion of the bull trouts future in two days! Maybe he could even get photos of where there are bull trout and atv damage.
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08-29-2015, 08:28 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: CNP
Posts: 3,769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNAPFisher
Don't worry Tall Texan. At seven posts on here I doubt you will make 15 before being banned. That is my prediction.
Lannie is another deflection tool. Blame the Government???? Talk about changing the topic to something that no one can put a finger on. How about we solve some of the problems we can before making it a universe of problems. That is how you get things done in any situation.
Do either of you own any land...I'm talking one that is large enough for others to quad on? If you did, you would realize (1) the damage the do first hand, (2) the "follow the leader" mentality it seems to create for both the good and bad intentioned quaders (e.g. Oh looks, a quad trail, let's use it. Must be fine as others have.), and (3) the lawlessness that ensures, (4) the noise pollution it creates that other users never asked for.
I've met both types on my land. The ones that are bad have their picture taken and sent to the local Sherriff for prosecution and the ones that are actually good or too stupid to know better are confronted with the reality of what they are doing.
I do own a quad and I do not use it for stream fishing. I use it for fencing and other farming activities. I would rather walk a stream and enjoy nature then plow through it on an ATV.
FlyTheory, don't take bake your comments because you are right. People like to deflect the issue and you are making your comments with the best of intention. I like what you said. Thanks.
Thanks to Don as well for bringing this ongoing issue forwards.
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Yes I own quite a few different parcels of land, houses and even some grazing leases. Have quads too. I also have Crowsnest river front land I spent the day on today and the only damage I see is from fly fisherman. Don't get me going on what filthy pigs some fly fisherman are with their garbage, empties etc and taking a crap where ever they feel fit. Do all Fly fishers do this? I don't think so and not every ATV rider wrecks the water.
I really do like to look at the over all picture and all contributing factors before pointing out the other users faults like a six year old. Thinking in terms of "we" is much more productive.
__________________
You are what you do, not what you say.
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08-29-2015, 08:47 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lannie
Yes I own quite a few different parcels of land, houses and even some grazing leases. Have quads too. I also have Crowsnest river front land I spent the day on today and the only damage I see is from fly fisherman. Don't get me going on what filthy pigs some fly fisherman are with their garbage, empties etc and taking a crap where ever they feel fit. Do all Fly fishers do this? I don't think so and not every ATV rider wrecks the water.
I really do like to look at the over all picture and all contributing factors before pointing out the other users faults like a six year old. Thinking in terms of "we" is much more productive.
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Do you own a parcel of land on a creek? I do, try that one out. See how many unwanted guests you have in that situation. See if you can keep fences up and grazing livestock. Guarantee you won't. See what you think about ATVs after that experience.
On the other hand, your comment on fly fishermen being pigs is true. Pigs are pigs. Now pigs on ATV can really do damage in no time that no litterbug can recreate. Not even in the same ballpark. Again, the old deflection by you. Productive is ending the quads negative effects on streams. Period. End of discussion. Thanks for coming out.
I just came from the Skeena where quaders are banned. You want to see something working. Go there.
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08-29-2015, 08:04 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: CNP
Posts: 3,769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RisingRainbows
This attitude of leave my atv pastime alone, I've been doing it for years, I'm not the problem... The truth is atv's do destroy streams, it's as simple as that.
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That is great example of simple.
__________________
You are what you do, not what you say.
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08-29-2015, 08:22 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Albert
Posts: 148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lannie
That is great example of simple.
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Sometimes it isn't that complicated.
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