Gunsmith shot by police Ontario

[pavilion]

https://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/ne...ighbour-says-2


PORT RYERSE – Witnesses, neighbours and friends have identified a Norfolk man killed in an interaction with Toronto police this week as gunsmith Rodger Kotanko, 70.


Mark Donnell of Simcoe, a life-long friend of Kotanko’s, arrived at the scene with a friend around noon Wednesday minutes after a shooting occurred at Kotanko’s home at 467 Port Ryerse Road immediately north of Highway 6.

Man shot in police incident was gunsmith, neighbour says
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Neither police nor the Special Investigations Unit have released the man’s name but an online search indicates Kotanko was associated with the residence.

Donnell said he and his friend had plans to go hunting in a bush beside Kotanko’s property. As he pulled up, Donnell said he noticed a heavy police presence in the area.

Thursday morning, Donnell said he watched paramedics wheel Kotanko out of the home on a stretcher. Donnell said paramedics were performing CPR as they did so. A friend of the Kotanko family, Donnell said he has it from “a reliable source” that Kotanko was shot once in the neck and three times in the chest.

Donnell said Kotanko’s wife Jessie was in the front yard, distraught, crying and yelling her husband’s name.

“I wanted to go see her,” Donnell said. “But they wouldn’t let me. Police told me very unpolitely to leave. I watched them bring him out on a stretcher. Then they kicked me out.”

In a social media post on Wednesday, Toronto police said officers were executing a firearms search warrant at the time of the shooting.

Ontario’s Special Investigations Unit (SIU) shared details of the incident Wednesday night.

“At about 12:04 p.m., in the course of Toronto Police Service officers executing a search warrant, shots were fired near a residence in the area of Highway 6 and Highway 24,” an SIU news release said. “One man is deceased.”


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The SIU is called to investigate anytime a civilian in Ontario is injured or killed during an interaction with police. The SIU says three investigators and two forensic experts have been assigned to the case.

In a follow-up email Thursday, SIU spokesperson Kristy Denette said the interaction involved members of the Toronto police service. She said the Norfolk OPP were not involved.

Denette added a post mortem was conducted Thursday morning. Denette says a “subject official” has been identified for the pending investigation along with “three witness officials.”

Fraser Pringle lives a couple doors down from the Kotanko residence. He and Kotanko have known each other for years, Pringle said.

“They shot a gunsmith,” Pringle said Thursday. “You have to put that in there. He has guns because he’s a gunsmith. He had a customer with him too. That’s what Rodger has always done. He was a gunsmith. He kept to himself. He was harmless.”

Dan Nagy, owner of Eli’s Guns and Archery in Simcoe, was stunned to learn of Kotanko’s death. In an email Thursday, Nagy said Kotanko was a friend and a mentor.

“Rodger was instrumental in teaching me my trade of gunsmithing,” Nagy said. “Everyone in the firearms community will mourn his loss. He was well-known and a well-respected community member and always under-charged his customers for the work he did.

“Those who knew Rodger knew he was as threatening as a toothless puppy or a declawed kitten. This situation causes great concern for all legal firearm owners.”

Donnell said Kotanko had expertise in the care and upkeep of both long arms and handguns. He said Kotanko occasionally did work for members of the Norfolk OPP.

[.264 Win Mag]

It will be very interesting to see if any more details come out about this story. Seems like he was a well respected nice guy.

[Scott N]

Originally Posted by .264 Win Mag

It will be very interesting to see if any more details come out about this story. Seems like he was a well respected nice guy.

I agree.... something about this doesn't add up.

[averagejoe]

Originally Posted by .264 Win Mag

It will be very interesting to see if any more details come out about this story. Seems like he was a well respected nice guy.

Originally Posted by Scott N

I agree.... something about this doesn't add up.

In a social media post on Wednesday, Toronto police said officers were executing a firearms search warrant at the time of the shooting.

Given it was the Toronto police doing it they probably sent a tactical/SWAT team and went in absolutely wired on adrenaline and loaded for bear rather than a polite knock at the door saying they had a search warrant.

The person said there was a customer with him at the time. So perhaps the police burst in, saw a gun in his hands and opened fire?

I sure hope they were wearing body cameras because you know they will all be given time to get their stories straight before they have to submit anything.

[silver lab]

He has a gun!! Shoot him!!! What more would we expect from Toronto Police?

[catnthehat]

All we know here is that he was a gunsmith , and that he also did work for the police, nothing more.
it will be interesting to hear the facts when they come out.
Cat

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

All we know here is that he was a gunsmith , and that he also did work for the police, nothing more.
it will be interesting to hear the facts when they come out.
Cat

Exactly


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[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

All we know here is that he was a gunsmith , and that he also did work for the police, nothing more.
it will be interesting to hear the facts when they come out.
Cat

“Facts” as they are reported, not perhaps as they happened.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

All we know here is that he was a gunsmith , and that he also did work for the police, nothing more.
it will be interesting to hear the facts when they come out.
Cat

Very true, but the sad fact is that we may never know the truth, we may hear the media spin on what happened, and then again, we may not even hear much from the media about this.

[fordtruckin]

Originally Posted by .264 Win Mag

It will be very interesting to see if any more details come out about this story. Seems like he was a well respected nice guy.

Nice well respected people can and do make bad decisions that have serious consequences. Hold off judgement on all sides until the all facts are out.

[Twisted Canuck]

Police statement said they were executing a firearms search warrant, SIU described it as a raid, which would confirm they didn't knock when executing warrant. Toronto Police were involved, not local PD.

https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/...rea-beach-town

[.264 Win Mag]

Originally Posted by fordtruckin

Nice well respected people can and do make bad decisions that have serious consequences. Hold off judgement on all sides until the all facts are out.

I don’t disagree with this but so can certain people in uniform. I have trouble believing if his wife and a customer where there that he was a threat. I could very well be wrong but something stinks, and the longer it takes to investigate and have “facts” come out the stronger the smell. Just my 2 cents.

[Scott N]

I wonder if the police would have body mounted cameras on an operation like this. At first whiff, something smells fishy on this.

[AI 6.5]

Originally Posted by fordtruckin

Nice well respected people can and do make bad decisions that have serious consequences. Hold off judgement on all sides until the all facts are out.

This right here. Of course all the armchair quarterbacks who were not there or who have never responded to a call in their life have all the answers. If the article or media report is about gun owners of course it's all horsesh!t and they always get it wrong but as soon as it involves police it's gospel.

[KC1]

Originally Posted by fordtruckin

Nice well respected people can and do make bad decisions that have serious consequences. Hold off judgement on all sides until the all facts are out.

This is the best post of this thread so far.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by KC1

This is the best post of this thread so far.

As long as people realize that it can apply to all involved, including the police.

[WV911]

On the surface it sounds bad but since I don't know the reason for the warrant or what happened i will hold judgement.

Like most threads here, a lot of arm chair quarterbacks who have never been in harms way or Im betting even know the technical aspects of a no knock warrant, which I also don't know.

[sns2]

Phil, if you want to carry over from the other thread, do so by pm. The discussion will be short, but we can have one. Right now you are just trolling for an argumen and to derail this thread.

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[Phil McCracken]

Originally Posted by sns2

Phil, if you want to carry over from the other thread, do so by pm. The discussion will be short, but we can have one. Right now you are just trolling for an argumen and to derail this thread.

Sent from my SM-A705W using Tapatalk

No my friend.

Has nothing to do with previous threads, and I'm not trying to derail anything. Nor am I trolling...

It is obvious we share different opinions, which is fine by me.

Bet you if you and I sat down and had a couple of beers...we would probably get along just fine.

Typing stuff is not my "forte"...Been guilty of that and admitted that before.

Would I consider putting you on my "ignore" list? Of course not. Why? Because you do provide some great info to the general membership on other matters.

And at times...we agree to disagree...

[sns2]

Originally Posted by Phil McCracken

No my friend.

Has nothing to do with previous threads, and I'm not trying to derail anything. Nor am I trolling...

It is obvious we share different opinions, which is fine by me.

Bet you if you and I sat down and had a couple of beers...we would probably get along just fine.

Typing stuff is not my "forte"...Been guilty of that and admitted that before.

Would I consider putting you on my "ignore" list? Of course not. Why? Because you do provide some great info to the general membership on other matters.

And at times...we agree to disagree...

Well thanks. Forums can be the enemy of real communication for sure. On that other thread, having worked with so many victims, I was very frustrated, and maybe you did not get your message across in the way you hoped. Regardless, we likely would get along just fine.

Now back to the thread. What I read about the gunsmith was from various shooting forums by people who knew him personally. Seemed just an older gun guy. I hope for all involved that there was a reason for that level of force to be used. I’m obviously not an LEO, and if it was uncalled for, then two families’ lives have been effectively ruined.

[dmac]

I chatted with a friend today who is a recently retired Ontario prosecutor. I asked him about this event specifically as it pertains to the jurisdiction issue. He told me that in Canada a cop is a cop is cop. This means they are not limited to or restricted by geography in performing their duty.

His thoughts on this event was that TPS has a large and dedicated gang squad and they may have had evidence the individual in Port Ryerse might have been associated with firearms recovered from gang members and/or crime scenes.

Plenty of speculation but I for one don’t believe this situation has any resemblance to High River whatsoever.

[Phil McCracken]

Originally Posted by sns2

Well thanks. Forums can be the enemy of real communication for sure. On that other thread, having worked with so many victims, I was very frustrated, and maybe you did not get your message across in the way you hoped. Regardless, we likely would get along just fine.

Now back to the thread. What I read about the gunsmith was from various shooting forums by people who knew him personally. Seemed just an older gun guy. I hope for all involved that there was a reason for that level of force to be used. I’m obviously not an LEO, and if it was uncalled for, then two families’ lives have been effectively ruined.

I agree with that.

What I have been saying all along is this matter will be investigated by a civilian agency overseeing police tactics/policies, and at the end of the day, we will all know how this thing went down. Which I believe we will.

Just a little frustrated with some of the comments made as to "how" things should have been done...or otherwise...without knowing all the actual facts.

All good this end...have a great evening!...

[sns2]

[QUOTE=Phil McCracken;4437714]I agree with that.

What I have been saying all along is this matter will be investigated by a civilian agency overseeing police tactics/policies, and at the end of the day, we will all know how this thing went down. Which I believe we will.

Just a little frustrated with some of the comments made as to "how" things should have been done...or otherwise...without knowing all the actual facts.

All good this end...have a great evening!...[/QUOTE]

You also

[TreeGuy]

Has anyone considered the possibility that the local OPP was under investigation for corruption and the TO tactical guys were there to pluck the lowest hanging fruit from a high risk environment and things went south? Sting operation?

Events like this certainly don’t go forth without significant reason/just cause. Particularly in this day and age of such intense focus on law enforcement tactics.

Is the Calgary team making the long (and expensive) trek to Bodo for Redfrog without a damn good reason?

Think about it.

Tree


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[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by TreeGuy

Has anyone considered the possibility that the local OPP was under investigation for corruption and the TO tactical guys were there to pluck the lowest hanging fruit from a high risk environment and things went south? Sting operation?

Events like this certainly don’t go forth without significant reason/just cause. Particularly in this day and age of such intense focus on law enforcement tactics.

Is the Calgary team making the long (and expensive) trek to Bodo for Redfrog without a damn good reason?

Think about it.

Tree


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Or perhaps the local OPP had been contacted by the Toronto group in the past and they weren’t interested in harassing their local citizens, in an anti firearms raid, because they didn't think there was justification? So the Toronto group decided to procede on their own. At this point, either is a possibility.

[C2C3PO]

Simply not done.
One jurisdiction will not impede the investigation of one that originated in another.
In fact under professional courtesy they would normally do everything they could to assist.
There are many reasons why OPP would not have participated and this is not one of them.

[Mulehahn]

Originally Posted by C2C3PO

Simply not done.
One jurisdiction will not impede the investigation of one that originated in another.
In fact under professional courtesy they would normally do everything they could to assist.
There are many reasons why OPP would not have participated and this is not one of them.

I don't about investigations that result in no knock raids but I do know that in situations such as car chases and such that is simply not true everywhere. I grew up in Delta, right close to Surrey. Delta had there own police force while Surrey was RCMP. The dividing line was a busy street. It was common knowledge, and still is that if you were being chased by police make for that border. The police must radio to the other side and ask for permission to cross. 9 times out of 10 that permission would be denied stating that the other force would take over pursuit..I know this because I volunteered with the Delta police and was in the office when they came in a more than a few times upset about it.

Police forces want glory for themselves. This is not an attack on individual officers as that comes from up high. But it is fact. I don't know what happened here! I doubt we ever truly will, but if the Toronto police truly didn't let OPP know, though allowed, is pretty telling.

[WV911]

Originally Posted by Mulehahn

I don't about investigations that result in no knock raids but I do know that in situations such as car chases and such that is simply not true everywhere. I grew up in Delta, right close to Surrey. Delta had there own police force while Surrey was RCMP. The dividing line was a busy street. It was common knowledge, and still is that if you were being chased by police make for that border. The police must radio to the other side and ask for permission to cross. 9 times out of 10 that permission would be denied stating that the other force would take over pursuit..I know this because I volunteered with the Delta police and was in the office when they came in a more than a few times upset about it.

Police forces want glory for themselves. This is not an attack on individual officers as that comes from up high. But it is fact. I don't know what happened here! I doubt we ever truly will, but if the Toronto police truly didn't let OPP know, though allowed, is pretty telling.

Maybe Im wrong but I have to call bulls**t on this.
Police in any province have full authority in that province.
This scenario you describe sounds like a dukes of hazard movie heading for the county line.
Anyone with actual legal knowledge know?

[nick0danger]

Originally Posted by TreeGuy

Has anyone considered the possibility that the local OPP was under investigation for corruption and the TO tactical guys were there to pluck the lowest hanging fruit from a high risk environment and things went south? Sting operation?

Events like this certainly don’t go forth without significant reason/just cause. Particularly in this day and age of such intense focus on law enforcement tactics.

Is the Calgary team making the long (and expensive) trek to Bodo for Redfrog without a damn good reason?

Think about it.

Tree


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If there was a good reason we would of heard about it. The longer it takes for the OPP and TPS to make a statement the more it sticks.

[Mb-MBR]

I'm a gonna speculate by saying they got the wrong house.........just as good as what's been said here already.