Great article on Registry and Licensing

[Twisted Canuck]

I love the way Lorne Gunter takes a no BS approach to the registry, but this article is even more provocative than most to the antis and registry advocates. This is the second article this week he has written on the registry, and many in the past as well. He has always struck me as very much in our corner as gun owners.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/...-the-registry/

[Big Daddy Badger]

To be honest...once the registry dies...licenses for long guns will likely become moot.
Who is going to make sure that all private deals are between current and lawfully licensed people?
If you don't make sure the other guy has a license...who is going to know, care or be able to do something about it?
Or...are they going to make the seller responsible to confirm the license status of everyone they sell to...just in case....?

Maybe we'll go back to the carriers permits we had before.

Only problem then will be idiots buying that never received the appropriate safety training etc. I think the greatest benefit of C-68 was the safety/training aspect.

[doetracks]

TC - thanks for posting that article

Originally Posted by pesky672

To be honest...once the registry dies...licenses for long guns will likely become moot.
Who is going to make sure that all private deals are between current and lawfully licensed people?
If you don't make sure the other guy has a license...who is going to know, care or be able to do something about it?
Or...are they going to make the seller responsible to confirm the license status of everyone they sell to...just in case....?

Maybe we'll go back to the carriers permits we had before.

Only problem then will be idiots buying that never received the appropriate safety training etc. I think the greatest benefit of C-68 was the safety/training aspect.

It'll be exactly the way it was pre registry. It was up to the seller to confirm that the buyer was elligible to purchase the firearm. Firearm owners will still need to be licenced or they can't own firearms. I suspect you'll see the powers that be doing more random checks for POL and PAL cards.

[CaberTosser]

That rack of pellet rifles in the accompanying photo looks simply sinister

[huntslots]

One thing that was brought up on the CTV news last night was the Bill Harper et al is putting through includes the destruction of all records. The thought behind this apparently is if another Govt. down the road wants to re-instate a registry they will be starting from scratch again.

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by huntslots

One thing that was brought up on the CTV news last night was the Bill Harper et al is putting through includes the destruction of all records. The thought behind this apparently is if another Govt. down the road wants to re-instate a registry they will be starting from scratch again.

Really, any attempt to re-initiate a registry would have to be from scratch, as after even a brief period much of the data would be inaccurate due to used sales between owners and new purchases. But power to them all the same.

Funny how none of the articles I've read noted that handguns and restricted long guns will still be registered. One would think this might slighty appease the anti's, but they're likely as ill-informed as always

[huntslots]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

Really, any attempt to re-initiate a registry would have to be from scratch, as after even a brief period much of the data would be inaccurate due to used sales between owners and new purchases. But power to them all the same.

Funny how none of the articles I've read noted that handguns and restricted long guns will still be registered. One would think this might slighty appease the anti's, but they're likely as ill-informed as always

You are right continuity would be lost with the registry dismantled even for a day but it does insure Provinces will not get the data and puts the last nail in the coffin to be burried forever. Hopefully!!

[209x50]

Originally Posted by pesky672

Only problem then will be idiots buying that never received the appropriate safety training etc. I think the greatest benefit of C-68 was the safety/training aspect.

Sorry, I don't agree with the rubber stamp process we have for gun and boat training. I don't see it being worthwhile or any loss at all.

[huntslots]

Originally Posted by 209x50

Sorry, I don't agree with the rubber stamp process we have for gun and boat training. I don't see it being worthwhile or any loss at all.

What rubber stamp training is there for firearms?

[NBScott]

I agree 100% with the article above. Without the registry there is little to no need for licensing either. I am all for proper safety training but why not just pack a copy of your firearms safety ticket like the good old days?
Simpler times and much more cost effective for the tax payer.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by huntslots

What rubber stamp training is there for firearms?

The same as a boat license, everybody passes.

[Winch101]

I have said this over and over , the europeans have the right programs for hunter training and guns...

I also love to hear from the people on here , who are not going to learn anything , are not open to any insites , and you are not going to make them get smarter and thats it.

There is a principle which is a bar against all information,
which is proof against all arguments
and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-
that principle is contempt prior to investigation .

Apparently when you are about 15 yrs old , that is as smart as you will ever be ....after that you just get dumber....

[209x50]

Originally Posted by Winch101

I have said this over and over , the europeans have the right programs for hunter training and guns...

I also love to hear from the people on here , who are not going to learn anything , are not open to any insites , and you are not going to make them get smarter and thats it.

There is a principle which is a bar against all information,
which is proof against all arguments
and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-
that principle is contempt prior to investigation .

Apparently when you are about 15 yrs old , that is as smart as you will ever be ....after that you just get dumber....

I'm not sure what you are talking about in your post. I do know that the mantra of more education will cure all has been one of the greatest failures of the modern age. IF education worked, no one would smoke, take drugs, drink and drive, be fat or get knocked up accidentally. As much as we like to preach that education is the answer it sure hasn't worked so far.
I'm not saying education is bad, not for a second, I'm a huge fan of education and I'm constantly updating my own. However when I hear on the news that a 21 year old drunk driver kills 4 teenagers on the weekend I think the message isn't getting through.

[huntslots]

Originally Posted by 209x50

The same as a boat license, everybody passes.

I checked today and NO not everyone passes the firearms training exam.
My opinion AHEIA is doing a great job of administering this program and certainly doesn't deserve to be lumped in with the "boater exam".

Obviously you do.

[jungleboy]

Originally Posted by huntslots

I checked today and NO not everyone passes the firearms training exam.
My opinion AHEIA is doing a great job of administering this program and certainly doesn't deserve to be lumped in with the "boater exam".

Obviously you do.

x2. A reputable firearms instructor will pass you only if you meet the requirements . They have to sign off on it too.

[TBD]

For the purchase of long guns (not restricted it'll continue the same) make authorization contingent upon producing a valid drivers license - license allows to check for criminal record which may disqualify ownership. If alls good ownership is granted. Try and piggy back a reasonable system to the identification and checks that are already in place - this way keep the costs limited. We don't need another 2 billion dollar registry computer system (Allan Rocks pet project which I'm sure his liberal buddies received millions from)

[huntslots]

Originally Posted by 209x50

The same as a boat license, everybody passes.

As per my last post I am still waiting for you to quantify how you lump AHEIA administration of the firearms education program to the "boater exam".

I would like an answer! Not someone who makes a statement and then "turtles" with no expanation.

[Arn?Narn.]

Originally Posted by huntslots

As per my last post I am still waiting for you to quantify how you lump AHEIA administration of the firearms education program to the "boater exam".

I would like an answer! Not someone who makes a statement and then "turtles" with no expanation.

strong words

[209x50]

Originally Posted by huntslots

As per my last post I am still waiting for you to quantify how you lump AHEIA administration of the firearms education program to the "boater exam".

I would like an answer! Not someone who makes a statement and then "turtles" with no expanation.

Rude fellow aren't you? I never said anything about AHEIA did I? My wife and I took the course when we upgraded from POL to PALs. It was a ridiculous 2 day snorathon full of outdated information and two instructors who spent more time telling stories that they thought were important then actually teaching anything. The tiny amount of real information they managed to teach over the 2 days would have filled 20 minutes tops. It ended with the instructors coaching several people through the test. I could go on with more examples but this I witnessed myself. You can also challenge the test, no training required.
You might think the training is great and important, I don't, I found it simplistic and very basic common sense and was insulted that I had to sit through it. Each of us is entitled to their opinion. Have a good evening.

[ksteed17]

Originally Posted by 209x50

Rude fellow aren't you? I never said anything about AHEIA did I? My wife and I took the course when we upgraded from POL to PALs. It was a ridiculous 2 day snorathon full of outdated information and two instructors who spent more time telling stories that they thought were important then actually teaching anything. The tiny amount of real information they managed to teach over the 2 days would have filled 20 minutes tops. It ended with the instructors coaching several people through the test. I could go on with more examples but this I witnessed myself. You can also challenge the test, no training required.
You might think the training is great and important, I don't, I found it simplistic and very basic common sense and was insulted that I had to sit through it. Each of us is entitled to their opinion. Have a good evening.

Yup no one fails. When I took mine the instructor changed some answers right on the test for a guy. And for my restricted I just challenged it

[rugatika]

Yup...I took the course with a couple young girls fresh out of university that needed PAL for their jobs up north. One of the stipulations was if you allow the muzzle of a firearm to point at anyone...instant fail...they were swinging the muzzles in front of everyone all the time, had no idea. It's a feel good course.

The hunter ed course I took in Sask when I was a kid was way more betterer. We actually shot 22's (seems to me you had to have a certain degree of marksmanship if I remember correctly).

At any rate. The European system is severely flawed.

Gun safety and use should be taught to EVERY single Canadian in school along with algebra, and science. If for no other reason than it would **** of all the liberals.

[huntslots]

Originally Posted by 209x50

Rude fellow aren't you? I never said anything about AHEIA did I? My wife and I took the course when we upgraded from POL to PALs. It was a ridiculous 2 day snorathon full of outdated information and two instructors who spent more time telling stories that they thought were important then actually teaching anything. The tiny amount of real information they managed to teach over the 2 days would have filled 20 minutes tops. It ended with the instructors coaching several people through the test. I could go on with more examples but this I witnessed myself. You can also challenge the test, no training required.
You might think the training is great and important, I don't, I found it simplistic and very basic common sense and was insulted that I had to sit through it. Each of us is entitled to their opinion. Have a good evening.

Not rude at all. You made a sweeping generalization on ALL firearms training, if you re-read your post.

Yes I believe training is important, I guess you believe you are above that and that is your opinion. It is too bad you were soured by your training experience but I don't believe the generalization you made has foundation whatsoever. That's my opinion.

Have a nice Fall day.

[Huntnut]

Originally Posted by 209x50

Rude fellow aren't you? I never said anything about AHEIA did I? My wife and I took the course when we upgraded from POL to PALs. It was a ridiculous 2 day snorathon full of outdated information and two instructors who spent more time telling stories that they thought were important then actually teaching anything. The tiny amount of real information they managed to teach over the 2 days would have filled 20 minutes tops. It ended with the instructors coaching several people through the test. I could go on with more examples but this I witnessed myself. You can also challenge the test, no training required.
You might think the training is great and important, I don't, I found it simplistic and very basic common sense and was insulted that I had to sit through it. Each of us is entitled to their opinion. Have a good evening.

2 days heck mine was 2 hours-(for restricted as well) and a couple of guys were "coached" through the exam as well. And as you said it was mostly common sense.

[Au revoir, Gopher]

Don't know if everybody passes or not, but I will say that passing the CFSC/CRFSC exams is not a particularly high bar to get over. There were a couple people on the course I took that I wouldn't want standing on a firing line beside me. There are some things you only learn with experience; I just can't think of a reasonable way of teaching or testing for that experience.

ARG