My rifle likes crap bullets? Argh

[Saltmania]

I picked up an X-bolt .308 this spring and have been experimenting trying to find a hunting bullet that groups well. I don't reload yet, but intend to start next year.

With cheap Federal Fusion 150 or 165 grain that I use for plinking, break-in, and fouling shots it shoots like a laser beam. MOA or less all day. Problem is I'm not sure I'd want to hunt with these. I'd be more comfortable with a premium bullet for use on game.

In 150 grain I've tried SST, Accubond, TTSX, and only the SST groups reasonably well (but still not as good as Fusion).

For an elk cartridge I'd prefer a 165 or 168 grain bullet but again, with Accubond and Interbond I haven't had good groups.

I haven't been able to get my hands on 168 grain TSX or TTSX but want to try.

Any advice fellows? It's kind of disheartening when I can get MOA consistently with the cheap crap, but good bullets aren't even close.

[bulletman]

Rest assured, Fusions are not ''crap bullets'' or are their reloading counterparts, the Speer Deep Curl. Value and performance come to mind when describing these bullets. 80% weight retention and affordable practice too!

[Saltmania]

Thanks. Maybe I've read too many threads that say you shouldn't be hunting without a partition, TSX, etc.

If they have reasonably good weight retention and result in the best shot placement than that's what counts?

Thanks for the reply. I'll consider your advice. After all - your name is Bulletman!

[I.R.Chevy]

My rifle is the same way, reloading it shoots the cheap Sierra game kings better than any other premium bullet so that's what I load for it because in my opinion a half decent bullet going exactly where you want it beats a premium bullet going where you don't want it...

[fish_e_o]

my blr goes moa or slightly better with federal blue box and i couldn't reload anything in it to moa for the life of me

[Chewbacca]

My xbolt 30-06 is the same. I used Fusion 165 gr to sight in my scope and then bought some Hornady 165 at twice the price. Pricier is better right, not. With the Fusions I was shooting around MOA and with the Hornadys it was like I had Parkinson's. put some more Fusions through and it was right back to a tad over MOA.
As far as quality in the bullet I'll poke these at Elk sized critters any time, with confidence.

[bulletman]

Winchester also has a reasonably priced load that holds together real well in my penetration tests. Winchester Power Max Bonded available at Wal-Mart for 22 bucks a box might also be worth a try! I don't think they shoot quite as well as the Fusions but every rifle is different.

[Hunter1602]

Originally Posted by bulletman

Rest assured, Fusions are not ''crap bullets'' or are their reloading counterparts, the Speer Deep Curl. Value and performance come to mind when describing these bullets. 80% weight retention and affordable practice too!

Agreed 100%

[north american hunter]

I do not think fusions are crappy at all, I used them for the past couple of years and they work wonders.

[Dick284]

Lets see, .308Win where muzzle velocities seldom exceed 2800fps.

Why do you guys all believe you need these super stout bullets?

There are seldom issues with cup cores when muzzle velocity is 2800fps or less.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Lets see, .308Win where muzzle velocities seldom exceed 2800fps.

Why do you guys all believe you need these super stout bullets?

There are seldom issues with cup cores when muzzle velocity is 2800fps or less.

to take advantage of better bc's with todays bullets

[Metalmike123]

They are true bonded bullets by chemically electroplating a copper jacket onto a lead core, nothing crappy about them. They are tough, inexpensive bullets.

[Okotokian]

I've generally heard good things about Fusions. However, if I recall correctly, when they were introduced they were touted by the manufacturer as a great bullet for deer. If you go to the Federal Premium site even today you will see they are rated for medium game (deer, etc.) but not large game (elk), while a bullet of the same weight in a partition is rated for elk. How come?

[buckbrushoutdoors]

with a mild velocity cartridge like the 308win stick with cup and core bullets.SSTS, b-tips, SGK's or the fusions or accubonds will open expand at lower velocity.
But if and when you decide to start reloading, give the 130ttsx a try IRC, you can push these around 3100-3200 fps and you will get the velocity to get full expansion.

[buckbrushoutdoors]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

to take advantage of better bc's with todays bullets

so shoot VLDS OR B-TIPS! I believe Dick ment stay away from the ttsx and tsx, gmx kind of bullets

[Saltmania]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I've generally heard good things about Fusions. However, if I recall correctly, when they were introduced they were touted by the manufacturer as a great bullet for deer. If you go to the Federal Premium site even today you will see they are rated for medium game (deer, etc.) but not large game (elk), while a bullet of the same weight in a partition is rated for elk. How come?

See this is why I'm confused.

I used some 165 grain Speer Spitzers last season that a friend of mine reloaded on whitetails and all worked very well, but since I'm planning my first dedicated Elk hunt this year I was thinking I should find something a little more solid.

The anecdotal consensus around this forum is that Elk are tough tough tough and that while shot placement is king, bullet construction is also very important.

But you guys are right - I should not have called them crap. More like economical or non-premium. Don't get me wrong - I do like the fact that I can get great groups from inexpensive cartridges on paper.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I've generally heard good things about Fusions. However, if I recall correctly, when they were introduced they were touted by the manufacturer as a great bullet for deer. If you go to the Federal Premium site even today you will see they are rated for medium game (deer, etc.) but not large game (elk), while a bullet of the same weight in a partition is rated for elk. How come?

I shot a bull elk with Fusions out of a 338....and the bullet pretty much blew apart with no exit wound. In my view they are too soft for the larger cals, while they may work fine in a 308. I switched to accubonds, even though the Fusion accuracy was excellent. Just my opinion.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

to take advantage of better bc's with todays bullets

Stoutly built does not necessarily equal a high BC.

Besides all the hype, tell me the difference a .400BC bullet vs a .500BC has at say 400yds? Starting both out a 2800fps!

I'll tell you what it equates too:

With a 250yd zero;
1.5"less drop,
3.4" less drift with a 10mph xwind.

With factory ammo, I'd bet there is next to nobody that could tell the difference in the field.
That's less than 10% change.

I'd wager that the crosshairs of his scope account for that much coverage at 400yds.

1. Shoot what shoots best( within usual parameters)
2. Worry about everything else once #1 is looked after.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by buckbrushoutdoors

so shoot VLDS OR B-TIPS! I believe Dick ment stay away from the ttsx and tsx, gmx kind of bullets

I was meaning to say if the TSX/monos fail to shoot well do not fret.

The super stouts are a bit of an over achiever in a 308, they shine better in the faster movers, that's all.

[Saltmania]

Originally Posted by Dick284

I was meaning to say if the TSX/monos fail to shoot well do not fret.

The super stouts are a bit of an over achiever in a 308, they shine better in the faster movers, that's all.

Your replies make sense to me Dick. Thanks for the feedback.

[Dick284]

I'll say it then I'll get my FR on.

What has changed since the 50's to say we hunters need all this fancy über stout, blast through em technology?

It seemed in years gone by lots of critters succumbed to plain Jane bullets out of a lot less high stepping cartridges.

I'll tell you the biggest things that have changed!

Marketing hype, less time spent actually being a hunter, less time honing those critical skills, like marksmanship, field craft, and respect to the game we pursue!

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Dick284

I'll say it then I'll get my FR on.

What has changed since the 50's to say we hunters need all this fancy über stout, blast through em technology?

It seemed in years gone by lots of critters succumbed to plain Jane bullets out of a lot less high stepping cartridges.

I'll tell you the biggest things that have changed!

Marketing hype, less time spent actually being a hunter, less time honing those critical skills, like marksmanship, field craft, and respect to the game we pursue!

Are you trying to tell me to stalk in good and close for a shot??? WTF? I've got a $2000 Nightforce and I've already taken 10 practice shots at the range!!!!! I want to be in the next county when I take my shot! LOL

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Are you trying to tell me to stalk in good and close for a shot??? WTF? I've got a $2000 Nightforce and I've already taken 10 practice shots at the range!!!!! I want to be in the next county when I take my shot! LOL

lemme know when ands L'll be in the next county to catch that bullet with a ball glove after it comes out of the 308!!
The 308 is a very fine cartridge, and very versatile, as well as chambered in a zillio different guns.
HOWEVER, to think that one needs a monometal or even bonded core bullet to kill stuff when it is fired out f the 308 case is getting a bit foolish, and tryiung to take stuff out at 500 and 600 yards with it is asking for trouble IMO.
It can be done, but there are far better cartridges out there for that......
Cat

[michaelmicallef]

Depending what you read every bullet has someone that is not happy with it's performance. So if 5 people say a bullet is great and one says it's crap I say the person that said the bullet is crap is full of _ _ _ _. My 7 mm medallion Xbolt is like that. So far my best grouping ever where with Winchester 20 bucks a box at walmart Ammo. I now reload and still can't get that thing to group as good as those cheapo rounds. But bullet holes touching or .5 inches apart is not going to make much difference come fall.

[bcpappy]

I know one guy at work who shoots the fusion's out of his 300 win mag and has had no trouble killing elk, moose and even an leh grizzly here in b.c. He says they are the most accurate for factory loads out of his gun. Try them for a season and decide for yourself if they are crappy.

[303carbine]

Originally Posted by Saltmania

I picked up an X-bolt .308 this spring and have been experimenting trying to find a hunting bullet that groups well. I don't reload yet, but intend to start next year.

With cheap Federal Fusion 150 or 165 grain that I use for plinking, break-in, and fouling shots it shoots like a laser beam. MOA or less all day. Problem is I'm not sure I'd want to hunt with these. I'd be more comfortable with a premium bullet for use on game.

In 150 grain I've tried SST, Accubond, TTSX, and only the SST groups reasonably well (but still not as good as Fusion).

For an elk cartridge I'd prefer a 165 or 168 grain bullet but again, with Accubond and Interbond I haven't had good groups.

I haven't been able to get my hands on 168 grain TSX or TTSX but want to try.

Any advice fellows? It's kind of disheartening when I can get MOA consistently with the cheap crap, but good bullets aren't even close.

Accuracy trumps hype every time. A good shot with a Fusion beats a bad shot with a Barnes or other premium bullets. You should be happy with MOA with any hunting bullet.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by Saltmania

I picked up an X-bolt .308 this spring and have been experimenting trying to find a hunting bullet that groups well. I don't reload yet, but intend to start next year.

With cheap Federal Fusion 150 or 165 grain that I use for plinking, break-in, and fouling shots it shoots like a laser beam. MOA or less all day. Problem is I'm not sure I'd want to hunt with these. I'd be more comfortable with a premium bullet for use on game.

In 150 grain I've tried SST, Accubond, TTSX, and only the SST groups reasonably well (but still not as good as Fusion).

For an elk cartridge I'd prefer a 165 or 168 grain bullet but again, with Accubond and Interbond I haven't had good groups.

I haven't been able to get my hands on 168 grain TSX or TTSX but want to try.

Any advice fellows? It's kind of disheartening when I can get MOA consistently with the cheap crap, but good bullets aren't even close.

And this is a problem?
I'd be more concerned if my rifle only liked really expensive bullets.

Regardless of what you read while guys make comparissons here... plain jane old bullets... managed to kill quite well a hundred years ago... and they will do just as well today.
A lot of guys hunt with plain old lead cast bullets and quite a few of them fudge the metalurgy.... yet they seem to work.

I'd either keep looking or count my blessings twas I you.

[1000yards]

My girlfriend likes the no name coffee better than the brand name,
But I aint gonna dump her for someone who only likes starbucks

[Tracker34]

My BLR, 308 loves 180 gr. Winchester silvertip ammo. I've tried all the high end stuff, but it shot horrible. I'm not put out buy it though. I don't mind only spending $20 per box for accurate ammo.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Dick284

I'll say it then I'll get my FR on.

What has changed since the 50's to say we hunters need all this fancy über stout, blast through em technology?

It seemed in years gone by lots of critters succumbed to plain Jane bullets out of a lot less high stepping cartridges.

I'll tell you the biggest things that have changed!

Marketing hype, less time spent actually being a hunter, less time honing those critical skills, like marksmanship, field craft, and respect to the game we pursue!

Well said!

LC