Hunting in Alberta as we know it a thing of the past?

[Kurt505]

Recently a fellow AO member made mention of the new plan for hunting and fishing in Alberta.

Quote from other thread;


"10 years you will have to get your tags from an indian controlled outfit. Personally saw the framework for it. This morning..."

End quote


I have no reason to believe this information is made up, if true this means there is currently a new plan for Alberta Outdoorsmen being tabled behind our backs. Obviously if it is true our government has a plan for our future, would be nice if we could be a part in the deciding of our future opertunities in regards to our outdoor sports.

I'm wondering if there are any members on the forum who are privy to this information and if they can bring forward any news on this, as this would be the biggest change for Alberta Outdoorsmen ever. Knowing how our government works, they will make this information public right after they pass the bill.

[diamonddave]

Could you imagine all the non-fn people lining up to give the band office money to buy tags, while the FN folk just go getter done? I can't.

[Scouter]

not believing it for a second.

[edmhunter]

Originally Posted by Scouter

not believing it for a second.

Frightening concept for sure

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by diamonddave

Could you imagine all the non-fn people lining up to give the band office money to buy tags, while the FN folk just go getter done? I can't.

It's more than just who you pay for the license, it's who makes the rules, who enforces the rules, and who is responsible for prosecuting the people who break the rules.

Apparently the framework is in place, I'm sure these are a few of the details of what else is entailed in making the transition.

I'm not sure, but I can't see this as being a good deal for our fish and wildlife, I can see a massive amount of non compliance and poaching. Who will enforce the laws I wonder?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Scouter

not believing it for a second.

I wonder if that's what the people in the Skeena Valley said 10yrs ago?


Maybe if they had a heads up it might of had a different outcome?

[diamonddave]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

It's more than just who you pay for the license, it's who makes the rules, who enforces the rules, and who is responsible for prosecuting the people who break the rules.

Apparently the framework is in place, I'm sure these are a few of the details of what else is entailed in making the transition.

I'm not sure, but I can't see this as being a good deal for our fish and wildlife, I can see a massive amount of non compliance and poaching. Who will enforce the laws I wonder?

Oh I knew where you were going with it and all it would encompass, I just wasn't going to lay it all out there.
I agree with you about the non compliance, I would be the first to step over the line.

[Okotokian]

Strikes me the government has been pretty diligent in prosecuting the MNA "test hunts". Not exactly the actions of a cooperative partner dying to give control of the resource over to native groups. Think we got some overly imaginative thinking going on in this thread.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by diamonddave

Oh I knew where you were going with it and all it would encompass, I just wasn't going to lay it all out there.
I agree with you about the non compliance, I would be the first to step over the line.

Not that there isn't poaching that goes on now, but our wildlife is regulated through the provincial government, and in some cases the federal government. What happens when it becomes a private industry? It will take a massive amount of funding to operate, even more than what the government can currently afford!

Then what?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Strikes me the government has been pretty diligent in prosecuting the MNA "test hunts". Not exactly the actions of a cooperative partner dying to give control of the resource over to native groups. Think we got some overly imaginative thinking going on in this thread.

I'm thinking if it can happen in BC, why is it such a stretch believing it can happen here?

If infact it's in the works, is there a way of finding out more about it from the government? I would rather know about the plan before it comes to pass.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by diamonddave

I agree with you about the non compliance, I would be the first to step over the line.

If things were run in the same manner or better you would step over the line? Or your just so certain it would be run badly that you are making the comment?

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Recently a fellow AO member made mention of the new plan for hunting and fishing in Alberta.

Quote from other thread;


"10 years you will have to get your tags from an indian controlled outfit. Personally saw the framework for it. This morning..."

End quote


I have no reason to believe this information is made up, if true this means there is currently a new plan for Alberta Outdoorsmen being tabled behind our backs. Obviously if it is true our government has a plan for our future, would be nice if we could be a part in the deciding of our future opertunities in regards to our outdoor sports.

I'm wondering if there are any members on the forum who are privy to this information and if they can bring forward any news on this, as this would be the biggest change for Alberta Outdoorsmen ever. Knowing how our government works, they will make this information public right after they pass the bill.

Originally Posted by Kurt505

It's more than just who you pay for the license, it's who makes the rules, who enforces the rules, and who is responsible for prosecuting the people who break the rules.

Apparently the framework is in place, I'm sure these are a few of the details of what else is entailed in making the transition.

I'm not sure, but I can't see this as being a good deal for our fish and wildlife, I can see a massive amount of non compliance and poaching. Who will enforce the laws I wonder?

First the little chief was being dramatic and now you are.

As I explained in the previous thread this is a concept being dicussed within Treaty Nations. The provincial government is not involved in this discussion. There is no framework nor timeline.

The fact that Alberta already has Treaties makes this concept difficult to actuate. There would have to be significant discussions and agreements between individual Nations and provincial and federal governments and ensuing legal actions and rulings....

If such a concept were to take traction in Alberta it would be a long drawn out process.

[diamonddave]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

If things were run in the same manner or better you would step over the line? Or your just so certain it would be run badly that you are making the comment?

Yes and Yes

[Sooner]

I am not sure i fully understand why this would be needed. Couple questions:

1. What is considered an Indian controlled Outfit? A Reserve?

2. Who handles game counts, draws and enforcement of the laws after said change?

3. What would be the benefit of this change?


Sounds to me if this is being worked on in the back rooms, someone has to know of it. I would sure like to hear more info.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I'm thinking if it can happen in BC, why is it such a stretch believing it can happen here?

If infact it's in the works, is there a way of finding out more about it from the government? I would rather know about the plan before it comes to pass.

BC natives regulate hunting on private land? If they have any say on public land I suspect (though I don't know) it's because land claims have yet to be settled and some of the crown land have claims (same reason pipelines are having a hard time getting through). That's not the case in Alberta where First nation land is pretty much set, I believe. What exactly is the situation in BC anyway?

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I'm thinking if it can happen in BC, why is it such a stretch believing it can happen here?

If infact it's in the works, is there a way of finding out more about it from the government? I would rather know about the plan before it comes to pass.

It has not yet happened in BC. BC is currently in a situation where a new court ruling on a particular traditional land use area is now subject to consultation between the provincial government and the nation in regards to licenced hunting. This will need more time before we will see what happens in terms of Natives cocontrolling the licences.


Remember ( or learn), BC is largely comprised of land that was never ceded through treaties.
The situation is not the same here in Alberta.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

First the little chief was being dramatic and now you are.

As I explained in the previous thread this is a concept being dicussed within Treaty Nations. The provincial government is not involved in this discussion. There is no framework nor timeline.

The fact that Alberta already has Treaties makes this concept difficult to actuate. There would have to be significant discussions and agreements between individual Nations and provincial and federal governments and ensuing legal actions and rulings....

If such a concept were to take traction in Alberta it would be a long drawn out process.

.

Lol, I'm glad you chimed in with this, it's good to here something factual on the subject. There are currently plans being tabled and it's good we are aware of this. You have to understand though, I'm being dramatic because I know it's possible that this will one day come to pass, and without being in the loop, I lack the confidence you have with the potentially new system.

I'm scared that if this comes into effect, what little say I currently have in our sustainable resources (fish and wildlife) will be gone. In all honesty, I have a hard enough time trusting this to our government, ANY private control would be extremely suspect to me.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

BC natives regulate hunting on private land? If they have any say on public land I suspect (though I don't know) it's because land claims have yet to be settled and some of the crown land have claims (same reason pipelines are having a hard time getting through). That's not the case in Alberta where First nation land is pretty much set, I believe. What exactly is the situation in BC anyway?

I'm not sure of exactly what is going on, but I know that there was a large section of the Skeena River system between Smithers and Terrace, maybe even further west, that was shut down to non native fishermen by BC natives when I was driving through there. I never got too many of the facts behind it, enough to know not to fish there though.

[fish_e_o]

i'm all for pulling out my tin foil hat but this would never fly. i could never in a million years see anything of the sort happening.

my tin foil hat is going to stay in my pocket for now

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Remember ( or learn), BC is largely comprised of land that was never ceded through treaties.
The situation is not the same here in Alberta.

This would fall under the learning category for me, you are definitely more aware of Canada's land titles than I am, thank you for bringing your knowledge into this thread, it is much appreciated.

I don't know Where the chief was going with that information, I don't even know why first Nations would even want control of our fish and wildlife in the first place. Is it for the money?is it for control of what non-natives harvest?

Obviously there are plans in the works albeit they may be a long way off but there still plans in the works. I'm just wondering what their motives are behind such a plan. I guess what I'm wondering is are they in it for the wildlife or are they actually just in it for the money?

It's an extremely difficult situation to regulate even for our government, I don't think ANY private organization will benefit our situation.

[Sooner]

Whats scary is that stuff like this or other changes/proposals to our hunting and fishing can and is being discussed and we have no knowledge unless someone "leaks" info out.

[norwestalta]

It'll be a cold day in hell.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

i'm all for pulling out my tin foil hat but this would never fly. i could never in a million years see anything of the sort happening.

my tin foil hat is going to stay in my pocket for now

Keeping tinfoil in your pocket can lead to sterilization and testicular cancer....

Point being, don't be nieve to the possibility.

I recall taking a cultural anthropology class back in 1990. Upon learning that 97% of BC (at that time) was unceded land, I could envision a day when the courts would rule this land to be returned to aboriginal control.

Twenty-five years later and this has become a reality for portions of BC, and this is just the beginning of the change in who controls the land and resources. Somewhat similar changes could conceivably occur in Alberta.

[Elk Hunter17]

That would be the last tag I ever bought, but I wouldn't quit hunting. Guess I would be the Indian then.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Kepping tinfoil in your pocket can lead to sterilization and testicular cancer....

Point being, don't be nieve to the possibility.

I recall taking a cultural anthropology class back in 1990. Upon learning that 97% of BC (at that time) was unceded land, I could envision a day when the courts would rule this land to be returned to aboriginal control.

Twenty-five years later and this has become a reality for portions of BC, and this is just the beginning of the change in who controls the land and resources. Somewhat similar changes could conceivably occur in Alberta.

anarchy, complete and total anarchy.

no one would support a government who would allow it

[norwestalta]

Could have our own "more idle protests ".

[abhunter8]

Originally Posted by Elk Hunter17

That would be the last tag I ever bought, but I wouldn't quit hunting. Guess I would be the Indian then.

I love it!! x2

[Torkdiesel]

This is by far the stupidest thread/rumour that has ever graced the pages of this forum. If any of you believe this for a second I have a lovely bridge I'd like to offer up for sale. Not in a trillion years would any government on the planet hand over a resource like this to FN. They need third party contractors to manage a Casino, how on earth would they handle a project this size.

Get facking real

[norwestalta]

It's the government. Anything could happen. You're right torq they can't organize themselves so how could you expect they to organize the rest of us.

[CritterCommander]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

This is by far the stupidest thread/rumour that has ever graced the pages of this forum. If any of you believe this for a second I have a lovely bridge I'd like to offer up for sale. Not in a trillion years would any government on the planet hand over a resource like this to FN. They need third party contractors to manage a Casino, how on earth would they handle a project this size.

Get facking real

x 10!!!