Calgary’s new arena $$$$$

[GMX]

Not a fan the comments made by our new premier (who wasn’t elected by Albertans). She made a statement the other day to Calgary’s mayor about a new arena. And Ric McIver echoing them and basically telling the mayor to ask for provincial money for the project. I seem to remember to uproar when Edmonton was looking at building one. Now the shoe is on the southern foot you hear nothing.

The owner of the flames and CNRL is flush with money and he made record profits the last few years. He made his money while breaking countless companies in northern Alberta by not paying in a timely manner or not paying at all. I know I worked for one of them until they folded while waiting to get paid.

Yes I’m an oilers fan but still opposed provincial money into the project then have to pay the crazy prices they ask to go to a game.

Break down of Rogers arena breakdown https://www.edmonton.ca/attractions_.../the-agreement

[elkhunter11]

No provincial revenue should ever go to a professional sports franchise. I would be upset if my city taxes went to a team owned by a billionaire.

[59whiskers]

Originally Posted by GMX

Not a fan the comments made by our new premier (who wasn’t elected by Albertans). She made a statement the other day to Calgary’s mayor about a new arena. And Ric McIver echoing them and basically telling the mayor to ask for provincial money for the project. I seem to remember to uproar when Edmonton was looking at building one. Now the shoe is on the southern foot you hear nothing.

The owner of the flames and CNRL is flush with money and he made record profits the last few years. He made his money while breaking countless companies in northern Alberta by not paying in a timely manner or not paying at all. I know I worked for one of them until they folded while waiting to get paid.

Yes I’m an oilers fan but still opposed provincial money into the project then have to pay the crazy prices they ask to go to a game.

Break down of Rogers arena breakdown https://www.edmonton.ca/attractions_.../the-agreement

The public should demand free gasoline from CNLR and discounted Flames tickets if the public money is used to give them a new sports venue, is this a joke?

[Bigwoodsman]

The new arena district in Calgary, is Danielle's plan to win over Calgary. She must think Calgarians are a gullible bunch!

BW

[Trochu]

To be clear on this, the Premier did not promise financial aid and has not committed any funds for the new building.

[midgetwaiter]

This is what, round 4 on this thing? They tried to roll it up into the Olympic bid that lost a referendum in 2018, then Nenshi made a deal that Edwards et al bailed out on because construction materials got too expensive. Most people I talk to are totally fed up with this and don’t want to see any pubic money put up for it.

[Sooner]

Originally Posted by Trochu

To be clear on this, the Premier did not promise financial aid and has not committed any funds for the new building.

That's how I read it too. Just clearing away red tape etc for a quicker resolution. Yet people are sure reading more into her statement. That being said, I don't doubt for a minute that its a political gesture for votes in some way.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by GMX

Break down of Rogers arena breakdown https://www.edmonton.ca/attractions_.../the-agreement

Am I reading that right, Katz only paid $19.7M up front, then is renting the building for $3.22M/year (Cap Rate of 0.6%)!?! Wow, what a sweet deal! With that rent, it will only take 150 years to pay the building off! That's like the equivalent of renting a $600,000 home for $300/month, wouldn't even pay the property tax.

[tallieho]

Originally Posted by Trochu

To be clear on this, the Premier did not promise financial aid and has not committed any funds for the new building.

Can we really call her the premier ? I do know this that i am opposed to give money,for the event center.If how ever she wants to pay for infrastructure improvements.Fill your boots.Road changes,water/sewer service,electrical changes,will be many.
Little of topic ,But can she ever not,open her yap.Sure likes to keep herself in the news

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

No provincial revenue should ever go to a professional sports franchise. I would be upset if my city taxes went to a team owned by a billionaire.

Well, they wouldn't be going to the franchise per say. The Saddledome is a busy place, it's not solely utilized by the Flames.....

28th Oct - Concert;
29th Oct - Flames vs Edmonton;
30th Oct - Hitmen game;
1st Nov - Flames vs Seattle;
2 Nov - Wranglers game;
3 Nov - Flames vs Nashville;
4 Nov - Wranglers game;
5 Nov - Flames vs New Jersey;
6 Nov - Wranglers game;
8 Nov - Wranglers game;
9 Nov - Concert;
12 Nov - Flames vs Winnipeg;
14 Nov - Flames vs LA
17 - 20 Nov - Disney on Ice;
etc.

I say, while they're at it, build the field house too! Lets get indoor Stamps games, grey cup, monster trucks, more concerts, wrestling, indoor Stampede events, etc.

[Fwee6]

Originally Posted by Trochu

Well, they wouldn't be going to the franchise per say. The Saddledome is a busy place, it's not solely utilized by the Flames.....

28th Oct - Concert;
29th Oct - Flames vs Edmonton;
30th Oct - Hitmen game;
1st Nov - Flames vs Seattle;
2 Nov - Wranglers game;
3 Nov - Flames vs Nashville;
4 Nov - Wranglers game;
5 Nov - Flames vs New Jersey;
6 Nov - Wranglers game;
8 Nov - Wranglers game;
9 Nov - Concert;
12 Nov - Flames vs Winnipeg;
14 Nov - Flames vs LA
17 - 20 Nov - Disney on Ice;
etc.

I say, while they're at it, build the field house too! Lets get indoor Stamps games, grey cup, monster trucks, more concerts, wrestling, indoor Stampede events, etc.

Somebody thinking like a business person -- refreshing!

You gotta spend money to make money, whether boohoo tax payers like it or not. I'd rather see my money spent on things like this with tangible measurements of ROI vs. the infinite number of "social programs" that start out of thin air daily at every level of government -- led by "Directors" that make $125k annually, plus benefits and fat pensions.

[dbg498]

Do you realize that all the listed dates except three are being used by a Murray Edwards owned team. The Hitman and Wranglers are Calgary Sports and Entertainment owned teams.

100%, Flames, Hitmen, Wranglers, Roughnecks, and Stampeders are all owned by the Calgary Sports and Entertainment Corp.

My argument doesn't revolve around who owns them however, could be a single individual contributing $300M or five individuals contributing $60M each. My point is the hundreds of individuals working at the facility, transporting the teams to and fro, transporting fans, working/owning the hotels, restaurants, retail stores, gas stations, etc. that these events help employ, the tens of thousands of fans going through the facility on a weekly bases, the hundreds of thousands/millions of dollars these teams contribute to non-profit organizations, the additional property tax the city will be able to charge due to new development around the facility, etc. etc. etc.

Now imagine that's all gone, no Flames/Wranglers/Hitmen/Roughnecks/Stampeders because people didn't want the city to commit $300M from consolidated revenues of $4.25B, or 7%, from 2021 revenues. Like Gord said, they city has committed $4.4B to projects through to 2026, nobody says boo, don't even know what they are. But a fraction of that money goes to a rink and people go crazy.

[gordfishing]

So in Calgary we build a $250 million library , we add $200 million to Arts Common , we build a massive addition to the BMO centre for $225 million , we put aside $4 BILLION for green line, all of the above in my opinion would not generate the economical spin off the one Flames playoff run or one large concert .
Nobody complains yet this arena needs everyone's blessing

I just don't get it

You can use all my tax $$$ for the arena any day

Remember library card memberships are free, plus in Calgary it seems like a great place for homeless to hang out I would not want my sons or daughter near that library after dark

[Glion]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

The new arena district in Calgary, is Danielle's plan to win over Calgary. She must think Calgarians are a gullible bunch!

BW

They aren't? They manage to be convinced to cheer for the flames year after year...

[calgarygringo]

I hate to bust your guys bubble but there is gov money in the Oilers deal but it has been spun around and upside down so it does not look like govt dough.
Community revitalization money is govt money they mysteriously moved around from an other use. Rexall place subsidy is another money spin. So for those that think Edm got no money that is not totally true. I am sure some Calgary spin doctor could come up with the same and everybody would scream murder.

Expensive yes, but it is needed badly.



"The City of Edmonton’s contribution of $226-million to the arena building includes funding through a Community Revitalization Levy, new parking revenues, and redirecting the current Rexall Place subsidy."

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Trochu

Well, they wouldn't be going to the franchise per say. The Saddledome is a busy place, it's not solely utilized by the Flames.....

28th Oct - Concert;
29th Oct - Flames vs Edmonton;
30th Oct - Hitmen game;
1st Nov - Flames vs Seattle;
2 Nov - Wranglers game;
3 Nov - Flames vs Nashville;
4 Nov - Wranglers game;
5 Nov - Flames vs New Jersey;
6 Nov - Wranglers game;
8 Nov - Wranglers game;
9 Nov - Concert;
12 Nov - Flames vs Winnipeg;
14 Nov - Flames vs LA
17 - 20 Nov - Disney on Ice;
etc.

I say, while they're at it, build the field house too! Lets get indoor Stamps games, grey cup, monster trucks, more concerts, wrestling, indoor Stampede events, etc.

If it will be such a great source of revenue, let the Flames owner build it, then he can make his investment back, without the tax payers investing, so he can have a new arena for his teams.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If it will be such a great source of revenue, let the Flames owner build it, then he can make his investment back, without the tax payers investing, so he can have a new arena for his teams.

If he received 100% of the revenue, I'm sure he would have done it years ago. Alas, he won't, it's a huge benefit to the city.

I could have a great business idea, but if I do nothing but still get 20%/30%/40%50% of the revenue, you're likely not going to start up that business by yourself, you'd want me to pony up some cash. No different here.

[JBE]

Isn't the city of edmonton (taxpayer)paying close to 70 percent of their arena?

[barbless]

And ya thought it was expensive to go to a game in Calgary now. Build it and they will not come. Way too expensive. The price will be ridiculous and your taxes will probably go up with it even when you don't attend any games or events. Rich and Corporates games. Then they will move

[sns2]

Originally Posted by Trochu

Well, they wouldn't be going to the franchise per say. The Saddledome is a busy place, it's not solely utilized by the Flames.....

28th Oct - Concert;
29th Oct - Flames vs Edmonton;
30th Oct - Hitmen game;
1st Nov - Flames vs Seattle;
2 Nov - Wranglers game;
3 Nov - Flames vs Nashville;
4 Nov - Wranglers game;
5 Nov - Flames vs New Jersey;
6 Nov - Wranglers game;
8 Nov - Wranglers game;
9 Nov - Concert;
12 Nov - Flames vs Winnipeg;
14 Nov - Flames vs LA
17 - 20 Nov - Disney on Ice;
etc.

I say, while they're at it, build the field house too! Lets get indoor Stamps games, grey cup, monster trucks, more concerts, wrestling, indoor Stampede events, etc.

1000%. Couldn’t agree more strongly with this sentiment. Elizabeth Manley twirling on that ice in the Olympics was nice, but the 80s was damn long time ago.

I remember all the vitriol and end times panic over Roger’s Place in Edmonton. It was a hard bargain, on both sides, as it should be. But in the end, only the most cynical person on two legs wouldn’t say it was anything short of a resounding success. If any of you remembers Staples, Baccarat, and the Greyhound station, you would agree. BTW, the province, as per the agreement linked earlier, contributed nothing beyond having passed legislation that enabled a Community Revitalization Levy to be used by municipalities. The change in downtown Edmonton was needed, and necessary for a city our size. That arena is busy with major league entertainment every single week, the city’s tax base has been greatly broadened, the citizen’s haven’t seen our taxes increased due to any shortfall on servicing the debt and operating expenses, we have a world class hotel as an anchor tenant, and in the Ice District there is the “Moss Pit” that is jammed packed with young Edmontonians enjoying themselves with a beer for the game.

Calgary is a different scenario, and will need the same type of creativity to find a win win solution, but there are smart people in those chairs. I hope you guys get a great facility like we did. It makes a difference to civic pride, it really does.

Without these arenas, we quickly become bigger versions of Regina and Saskatoon with no offence intended, just the truth.

PS: Regina has a kick butt stadium that I’d love to see a game in. One day.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Trochu

If he received 100% of the revenue, I'm sure he would have done it years ago. Alas, he won't, it's a huge benefit to the city.

I could have a great business idea, but if I do nothing but still get 20%/30%/40%50% of the revenue, you're likely not going to start up that business by yourself, you'd want me to pony up some cash. No different here.

So is that deal more of a benefit for Katz, or for the city? Personally, I see it as Katz being the one that profits, at the expense of the taxpayers.

https://www.edmonton.ca/attractions_.../the-agreement

As you yourself posted

Am I reading that right, Katz only paid $19.7M up front, then is renting the building for $3.22M/year (Cap Rate of 0.6%)!?! Wow, what a sweet deal! With that rent, it will only take 150 years to pay the building off! That's like the equivalent of renting a $600,000 home for $300/month, wouldn't even pay the property tax.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So is that deal more of a benefit for Katz, or for the city? Personally, I see it as Katz being the one that profits, at the expense of the taxpayers.

https://www.edmonton.ca/attractions_.../the-agreement

As you yourself posted

Yup, that's not a great deal for the taxpayer. CSEC and Calgary have a different deal.

From CBC (sorry) and the details of the previous deal:

"The Katz Group is paying for 27 per cent of Edmonton's $613-million arena project. By comparison, the Flames ownership group and Calgary would split the cost of the $550-million project 50/50." Link

I obviously don't know the details of the new deal as it hasn't been made yet. If it was similar to the previous outline, I'm all for it.

[Phil McCracken]

So the Saddledome is presently one of the worst "sub-standard" arena in the NHL. They need to upgrade. So money is required to rebuild.

If they don't, Calgary won't have a team anymore....Bottom line.

So what next? Quebec City Flames? Hamilton Flames? Arizona Flames? Sure Bettman will figure it out...

[Badgerbadger]

Originally Posted by Trochu

Well, they wouldn't be going to the franchise per say. The Saddledome is a busy place, it's not solely utilized by the Flames.....

28th Oct - Concert;
29th Oct - Flames vs Edmonton;
30th Oct - Hitmen game;
1st Nov - Flames vs Seattle;
2 Nov - Wranglers game;
3 Nov - Flames vs Nashville;
4 Nov - Wranglers game;
5 Nov - Flames vs New Jersey;
6 Nov - Wranglers game;
8 Nov - Wranglers game;
9 Nov - Concert;
12 Nov - Flames vs Winnipeg;
14 Nov - Flames vs LA
17 - 20 Nov - Disney on Ice;
etc.

I say, while they're at it, build the field house too! Lets get indoor Stamps games, grey cup, monster trucks, more concerts, wrestling, indoor Stampede events, etc.

So, how does this bring money into the city? A few minimum wage jobs for a few hours, is nice, but where's the big bonus?

Most studies indicate there's not much bang for the taxpayer buck.

https://www.investigativepost.org/20...money%20around.

[Grizzly Adams1]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

No provincial revenue should ever go to a professional sports franchise. I would be upset if my city taxes went to a team owned by a billionaire.

x2, the billionaire owners have been playing the city , like a violin, for the last decade. We have bigger problems that need to be addressed, especially in this economic climate. People are having trouble putting food on the table and the elite want to saddle them with more taxes.

Grizz

[FortMac]

If the Flames do leave, How much taxpayer money will be used to build the new event center that is needed anyway? 100%, that's right

[Fwee6]

Originally Posted by barbless

And ya thought it was expensive to go to a game in Calgary now. Build it and they will not come. Way too expensive. The price will be ridiculous and your taxes will probably go up with it even when you don't attend any games or events. Rich and Corporates games. Then they will move

Wanna bet it sells out every game for years to come?

[bearbuster]

The Flames ownership didn't become bazzilionaires by making bad business decisions. Pretty narrow minded for people to think that the Flames are the only beneficiary of a new facility. I am nowhere near a flames fan, can't stand them actually, but the loss to the city and province if the team were to leave would far outweigh the cost of a partnership on the arena. Seems like the mayor has different priorities

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article...sts-new-arena/

[bearbuster]

Then again, this all from a city that deemed this as a culture piece and somehow was a valid project. Perhaps this statement could also apply to a new arena.
"We would like to point out that over 80 per cent of the overall project budget for this project stayed in Calgary, as the fabricators are a local company based in the City of Calgary."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...tion-1.1991453

[roper1]

If you wait to have kids until you can afford them, well, guess what, no kids. Build the dang rink, get paying for it & enjoying it. Enough already!