BORE SCOPE OWNERS: need advice

[brewster29]

History: I recently sold a 42 year old rifle that I have owned for 40 years, rifle has seen no more than 300 rounds by me and previous owner had shot maybe 80. Cartridge is not noted as being hard on barrels, but I did shoot all reloads near top velocity. I don't shoot my barrels hot, three round groups are usual. Rifle always shot very well for me, bore looked shiny and rifling in throat area was still sharp on visual inspection after I cleaned it with WipeOut prior to sale.

The buyer claims to have borescoped the barrel and claims there's a lot of fire cracking...he has not shot the rifle because he thinks it won't shoot well.

I would like to be fair with him. I read on line that it is usual for a rifle with 350-400 rounds to show fire cracking in the throat area. I also read on line that bore scopes drive a lot of unnecessary barrel sales! I will ask him for bore scope photos. I am not sure if he scamming me or expecting a new bore on a used rifle. We are separated by a few provinces so it's not easy for me to look at this.

What is normal for a rifle with this amount of rounds?

Need to know options:
Do I tell him to pound sand? You bought a used gun.
Offer a rebate of some sort?
Normally I would say return it at his expense for a restocking fee but I sold all reloading supplies since and will not have an easy time finding those again. Not keen on this option.

Appreciate any advice you have on what to expect for normal bore wear and tear.

[Pathfinder76]

I like option 1. I’m sorry, but people that judge a bores ability to shoot with a bore scope are up at night. “Fire cracking” as an indicator being the dumbest.

[obsessed1]

Agree with first post.. a few of my rifles with " fire cracking" are still sub moa guns.....you gave him a round count in sale discription? That should be enough. He bought a used gun he knew how many rounds were fired, barrels are expendable items on a firearm. Most barrels will still out perform the shooter even with " fire cracking" or other normal barrel wear..

[Dean2]

Pound sand is the very polite version of what I would tell this dummy. Fire cracking has zero to do with accuracy. You sold him the gun, and fully disclosed the round count. You did not abuse the gun. End of story. Some of my heavily over bore rifles will start to show fire cracking after a couple of hundred rounds. They still shoot .5 at 200 yards.

Asking for a refund when you haven't even shot the gun is the height of just how stupid and unreasonable some people are. If he wanted to know about fire cracking he should have asked for pictures from a bore scope. Guy isn't from Quebec by any chance?

[spurly]

Sounds like he is trying to scam you. The fact he is not even willing to shoot it, should tell you a lot. Even if he sends you the photos of the bore, they could be from any rifle. He bought a used rifle. Not a new one.

[Twisted Canuck]

Complaining before you even shoot the rifle is indicative of something, and that seems to be more of the problem then fire cracking. I wouldn't be quick to accommodate somebody who complains before they even shoot the gun.

If he had shot it and it grouped 7" at a hundred yards when you claimed MOA, then I guess you could have a discussion with him. Even that could also just mean the guy doesn't know how to shoot though .

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

Complaining before you even shoot the rifle is indicative of something, and that seems to be more of the problem then fire cracking. I wouldn't be quick to accommodate somebody who complains before they even shoot the gun.

If he had shot it and it grouped 7" at a hundred yards when you claimed MOA, then I guess you could have a discussion with him. Even that could also just mean the guy doesn't know how to shoot though .

Even then. If I can shoot a rifle MOA and the guy I sell it to can’t. That’s not my problem.

[silvertip]

Every Barrel will be different

All Barrels will have some cracking ,

its a fact of life , Hot gases on metal, it eventually going to happen

You gave required info in good faith.

[Bushrat]

Depending on bore diameter and amount of powder being consumed most rifles will start to show fire cracking after a couple hundred rounds. Most chrome moly barrels (blued steel) will firecrack sooner than most stainless barrels. If fire cracking affected accuracy in the early stages of a barrels life everybody would be changing barrels after 200- 400 rounds. In most cases the usefull accuracy of hunting rifles will not be affected until they are really ugly and the throat is eroded and lengthened substantially.

What cartridge is it chambered in? Do you have pictures.

If the owner won't even shoot it then he is unreasonable, probably badmouthing you. I would give his money back and never deal with him again. He is probably being advised by a know it all who just got a borescope and has little experience defining what he is looking at. On the other hand he might be right and the original owner has shot it a lot more than he let on and unloaded it on you. Looking through the bore with the eyeball they have to be really cooked before you can see the erosion, even then they can still look shiny, clean and sharp.

How a barrel looks through a borescope is no indication how it will shoot. Have seen many near perfectly appearing bores than don't shoot well at all and some that look like they were rifled by a roto tiller yet shoot really well.

[elkhunter11]

Some people should not have access to a bore scope, too much information, just confuses some people. If it shoots good, who cares what the borescope shows?

[Dick284]

Sounds like the buyer is looking for a price break based on his shiny new bore scope, and resultant lack of real world experience.
Politely ask him to shoot the damned rifle before expounding his nuggets of wisdom.

[rembo]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Some people should not have access to a bore scope, too much information, just confuses some people. If it shoots good, who cares what the borescope shows?

exactly. The wide spread ownership of cheap digital borescopes have ruined a lot of good shooting rifles.

I bought a Hawkeye scope 10 years ago and have seen many fire cracked and worn throats that still shot very well. One that comes to mind is a 700 in 7 Rem Mag with lots of fire cracking and almost zero rifling for a half inch ahead of the chamber. That rifle shot many groups of 1-1/2" to 2-1/2" at 300 meters with hunting bullets and no real tuning. My son has a Savage 22-250 heavy barrel that we estimate has at least 2000 rounds through it and it still shoots well under an inch. No rifling for about 3/4" ahead of the chamber.

And, I've found that at least half of the 20+ year old rifles out there with chrome-moly barrels have some minor pitting. Some have severe pitting. Most still shoot well.

[catnthehat]

I use my scope for checking case length and throat clearence, and to check my cleaning process.
I have one 308 in particular that I shot a master class score with a couple of weeks ago at 800 meters. The bore looks terrible. If is a 6,000 round plus Rifle, but it will still shoot accurately.
There is a video put there that MDT did where they took a 6.5Creed and fired 1,000 round through it on an hour ,
they got it enough to cook bacon on the barrel!
Ryan Steacy of IBI took that rifle, cleaned the heck out of it. And still shot a bunch of groups right around 1MOA.
Bore scope misunderstanding is as wide spread as chronograph misinterpetation in my opinion !
Cat

[-JR-]

He's Pounding Sand ! Don't even reply to his calls . He bought a used gun .
Next think he might do is show you a 10 inch group and it might even be free hand. Lol. Very few new guns come with a guarantee that they even shoot a tight group. Rest in peace.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I use my scope for checking case length and throat clearence, and to check my cleaning process.
I have one 308 in particular that I shot a master class score with a couple of weeks ago at 800 meters. The bore looks terrible. If is a 6,000 round plus Rifle, but it will still shoot accurately.
There is a video put there that MDT did where they took a 6.5Creed and fired 1,000 round through it on an hour ,
they got it enough to cook bacon on the barrel!
Ryan Steacy of IBI took that rifle, cleaned the heck out of it. And still shot a bunch of groups right around 1MOA.
Bore scope misunderstanding is as wide spread as chronograph misinterpetation in my opinion !
Cat

I agree, I still shake my head when I see people very pleased with the groups they are shooting, then they get a chronograph, and are upset that the ES, and SD are not as low as they think they should be.

[fps plus]

The joys of borescopes

[Trochu]

A big red flag for me is buddy complaining about how it shoots, without shooting it. It's actually absurd to me, complaining about anything without trying it.

[Ackleyman]

Originally Posted by Trochu

A big red flag for me is buddy complaining about how it shoots, without shooting it. It's actually absurd to me, complaining about anything without trying it.

Exactly . Who knows what he has done to the rifle since he has had it. He sounds about as sharp as a marble. Pound Sand.

[brewster29]

I would like to thank all who took the time to respond. I am certain I have never seen so many members ever have the exact same opinion on any topic!

Thanks for making my decision a simple one. Sand it will be.

It's great to able to tap into the collective knowledge here. Much appreciated.

Bruce

[Twisted Canuck]

It certainly isn't a commonplace thing to have consensus on a topic around here.

[kujoseto]

I have nothing new to say that hasn’t already been said, so at the risk of sounding like a liberal only wanting to be around opinions that are the same as my own, I sure enjoy this place because of the sentiments outlined in the posts above haha.

You disclosed the condition of the used rifle, payment and transfer of rifle complete, nothing more to do or say. If he’d just go shoot the thing he’d probably be thrilled with the gun.
I’m getting the impression these complainers are just trying to resell these items at inflated prices

[fps plus]

There are different types of bore scopes , maybe the one he / she /it /thing used was actually for a colonoscopy ?

[leo]

Several years back I sold a BRNO model 21 in 7x57 to a fellow on CGN. I shot the rifle with factory loads, it put 3 shots into an inch at 100 yards. Cosmetically it was in 90% or better condition. I sent him detailed photo's as well as a pic of the target I shot with it. We haggled on a fair price prior to closing the deal. The fellow received it, messaged me he was happy with it, left me a positive trader rating, all good. 3-4 weeks later he messages me and said his buddy ran a bore scope in it and told him the barrel was shot. I asked him if he fired it. He said no, he wanted a full refund. I politely told him to pound sand and had to block all further communication from him as he was relentless that I had screwed him over. I don't own a bore scope, and the rifle was in the condition I described, and shot just fine for me. I was torn over my decision, not because I thought I scammed him, but because I am an honest person and this always bothers me to no end. I generally only do deals with close friends now, and rarely sell publicly.

[catnthehat]

It's like trying to sell a proven game killing rifle , then the seller wanting his money back after two weeks because it would not get the velocities he wanted, even though No velocity was ever mentioned, just that you had killed 15 or so animals with it?
Same thing as Bore scope findings as far as I am concerned, not conducive to the sale!
Cat

[Nova316]

I'd tell him to pound sand as he hasn't shot the rife yet and fire cracking isn't indicative of accuracy or barrel wear. He seems like he isn't happy with his purchase and is going to want some money back, buyers regret?

Kinda like buying a used car, not starting it, and then saying it doesnt drive because theres carbon in the exhaust system.

[32-40win]

Bought a used gun, take your chances and roll the dice on whether it will shoot or not. Plenty of fussy ones out there that will only shoot one or two loads well, plenty of match grade factory ammo that won't shoot worth krap that causes people to sell perfectly good guns for the wrong reasons. And plenty of owners that don't set themselves properly up to shoot paper or anything else, and some who just can't shoot, no matter what you give them to shoot.