Barrel break in procedure, how many of you do it?

[wwbirds]

Picked up the new 22-250 Varmint stalker yesterday and had scope installed so talked to many of my shooting friends and about half of them believe the ultimate accuracy achieved is related to the break in procedure.
Another friend yesterday says he does it religiously and since he shoots HS Precision and it calls for a specific break in procedure in the HS manual I am doing it today.
Seems like the slow way to break in barrel but here is how I was instructed to do it according to H.S. Precision rules.

New out of box rifle two patches saturated with solvent through bore to clean any dust and anti corrosive applied at factory. two dry patches to clean. Repeat until patches emerge clean (2 X today on this rifle).

Fire one fouling round. Clean with CR 10 according to instructions on bottle.
(1 saturated patch pushed through wait a minute and push saturated patch through 10 times. Wait a minute and push saturated nylon brush through bore 10 times. Run two clean dry patches through bore.)

It surprized me one shot would require two cleanings to get the copper (blue/green) out. 3rd repeat of initial wet patch came out clean.

Now I am waiting for a decent windless and milder day to shoot 1 fouling shot and then a group of 5 shots (also sighting in during this procedure as scope is only bore sighted at this point) prior to cleaning completely again.
This step is required 5 times for apparently the barrel is not broken in until the rifle has fired 30 rounds. (in this case 31).

The naysayers to this process seemed to indicate that they had no information that barrel break in had any effect on the final accuracy for a rifle for many really good shooters had not ben broken in as outlined above while some which had been broken in turned out to be not so terrific on the accuracy side.
How many of you bother with a formal break in procedure similar to what I am doing today and later this weekend. similar procedure? variations?
thanks
Rob

[Traps]

I shoot roughly a box to a box and a half then clean. Doesn't matter when it is.

[Kelly & Beth]

I clean after every shot for the first 5, then shoot three and clean I will do this first the box of shells and if my gun is getting warm I let her cool down good before shooting more. then I clean after every 5 if I am at the range or clean it every time I am out and about regardless of fireing any rounds. seems to keep my guns shooting straight.

Here’s what I do with a new barrel. First off, I like to shoot very heavy grain bullets for the first 20-100 rounds or so. So, if I was breaking in a .30-60 barrel for example, I’d likely shoot 180 grain bullets. Don’t worry too much about developing loads or anything else for these first shots as the accuracy of your barrel may well improve as you break it in. These shots are just to smooth out that transition from throat to the lands on the rifling and the actual lands themselves. How many shots this takes varies from barrel to barrel but I can tell that with some of the cheaper, mass produced barrels, it can take up to 100 rounds. I let the amount of copper on my cleaning patches be my guide.

During this initial break-in, I’ll do a complete barrel cleaning with copper solvent every five rounds for at least the first 20 rounds. If copper build up seems minimal, then I’ll start working up a load for that rifle but if the patches still come out with a lot of green and blue on them, I’ll stick to the five shot regime until I feel the barrel is broken in. Once a barrel has been broken in, it only needs to be cleaned every 20 rounds.

Cleaning, while a fairly simple process, does require a fair amount of time to do it properly but it is time well invested as it will ensure a long life for your barrel. The first step in barrel cleaning is to get the powder residue out. For this, I like a product like Shooter’s Choice MC#7. Bolt-action and single shot rifles should be cleaned from the breech and in the case of a bolt action, get yourself a rod guide. This plastic guide simply slides into the action once the bolt is removed to ensure the rod enters the barrel without damaging it. Also ensure you are using a quality one-piece coated cleaning rod to avoid doing any damage to the throat or rifling.

I will not put a bronze or brass brush in my barrel but instead use nylon brushes exclusively. I like to get a nylon brush that is several calibres smaller than the barrel and wrap a cotton patch soaked in the shooter’s Choice around it. Say for example I’m cleaning a .30-06, I’ll use a .25 calibre nylon brush with a .30 calibre patch wrapped around it. Run the first wet patch completely through the bore and remove the patch. Pull the rod out and attach another patch to the brush and soak it again with Shooter’s Choice. Now insert this patch into the barrel and work it slowly back and forth for the entire length of the barrel five or six times and then remove the rod from the barrel and discard the patch. Now run two more soaked patches once through the barrel followed by two dry patches to get all the cleaner out.

The next step is to use a copper cleaner and for this, I prefer Sweet’s 7.62 Solvent. Using the same nylon brush wrapped with a patch soaked with the Sweet’s, run it directly through the barrel once and allow the solvent to sit no more than 10 minutes. Allowing it to sit in the barrel longer can actually damage your rifling. Once 10 minutes has elapsed, run a couple dry patches through the barrel. If they show a lot of copper build up, use the Sweet’s one more time. After 10 minutes, run a couple more dry patches through the bore. Now the rifle is ready to be shot or if you are going to store it for a period of time, run a patch with a small amount of oil on it through the barrel. For this, I use G96 Complete Gun Treatment. It’s always a good idea to run one dry patch through the barrel before shooting a rifle if it’s been stored with oil in it.

[ruger300]

Most of my new rifles I own now I give the breakin procedure. Mostly varmint rifles as of late. As long as you got all the proper tools and time I don't see that it can hurt and it kinda lets you know what that barrel will shoot with a clean bore or a fouled bore. And sighting in the rifle while your cleaning it is good too. Once my varmint guns are sighted in I give er a final clean and call it broken in. Just how i do it.

ruger300

[catnthehat]

I clean a match rifle barrel first with Wipeout, then run a few patches of Kroil through it.
I fire a round, then soak the barrel for a few minutes with hoppes Bench rest, patch it out and look at it to make sure all is okay .
Run a Kroil patch and do it again.
repeat and done.
I then clean with Wipeoutwhen the groups open up .
Hunting rifles are about the same, only they get cleaned more often because of temperature changes, wet wether, etc.

Some World record shooters like Bill Shehane go through a major routine, others don't.
Cat

[HaMeR]

Clean it. Shoot it. Keep it clean. Done. All the extra shooting/cleaning is to sell more barrels.

[Justflyfish4eva]

http://www.6mmbr.com/GailMcMbreakin.html

[6.5x47 lapua]

what everybody has to realize is quality aftermarket barrels are hand lapped.an accelerated version of a barrel break in procedure.to break these in is pointless for the most part if a competent smith chambers your barrel with a live pilot reamer and a good fitting bushing.factory barrels on the other hand are reamed and rifled and chambered with production in mind.they tend to be fairly rough in comparison and this is where break in procedures come into play.

Originally Posted by custom gunworx

what everybody has to realize is quality aftermarket barrels are hand lapped.an accelerated version of a barrel break in procedure.to break these in is pointless for the most part if a competent smith chambers your barrel with a live pilot reamer and a good fitting bushing.factory barrels on the other hand are reamed and rifled and chambered with production in mind.they tend to be fairly rough in comparison and this is where break in procedures come into play.

I sat in on a seminar by Kenny Jarrett a couple years ago and while he echoed exactly what you are saying about quality difference, he stressed how critical it was to still go through a proper break in proceedure. No matter how good the barrel or the reamer, there is always going to be a difference between the machining in the throat and the riflings and that's where break-in is critical...The only way to get these surfaces to match is by shooting bullets through the rifle and he stressed how important it was to do that with a proper regime.

[Buckhead]

My own personal theory is that it is not going to make much difference -either you have an accurate barrel or a tomato stake. Obsessive cleaning isn't going to change that. Clean when accuracy starts to degrade.

However when I do need to clean I use Gunslick foaming bore cleaner and let it sit for an hour - any signs of copper and I do it again. Then I patch it out with Hoppes No. 9 a until the patch comes clean. Then clean out the chamber and wipe the bolt etc. with No. 9. Might lightly oil after - depends if I'm gonna use it right away or not.

Above all - learn what your rifle likes. I have one M70 that just will not shoot with a clean bore. Clean - 1.5 to 2" groups at 100 m. Fouled after about 20 rounds and it will cut that in half. I only give this one a good cleaning about every 2 years - in the mean time it sees a bore snake every now and then and a brushing out with a nylon brush if the powder fouling is building up.

[jaybull]

Originally Posted by Justflyfish4eva

http://www.6mmbr.com/GailMcMbreakin.html

Makes sence. Money talks bs walks.

[6.5x47 lapua]

as far as break in procedures,whether you put all your weight on your left heel or right heel when you push your rod through makes no diffrence. how many times you shoot before you clean makes no diffrence.a one shot clean regiment for say 15-20 shots might be the way to go if worried about round count..the cleaning chemicals on the market are also pretty good,i use butchs only because it does it all in one so i dont have to have 3 or 4 diffrent bottles of product.which reminds me has anybody found a supplier for a product called ammonia 26? i had this producta few years ago for getting stubborn copper fouling out and cannot find it again.

how many times you shoot before you clean makes no diffrence

But what it you have a rough spot that is collecting copper? The more shots without cleaning, the greater the build up. Certainly each gun is unique but I think a new barrel that is showing a lot of copper build up after only a couple shots should be cleaned more often during break in than one that isn't.

[Vindalbakken]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I will not put a bronze or brass brush in my barrel but instead use nylon brushes exclusively.

As I read through the thread I took note of this sentence thinking perhaps I should look into some nylon brushes.

Then I came to the link to the article by Gale McMillan which led to another link with a BB conversation with him and I found this bit:

Originally Posted by Gale McMillan

Brass brushes are softer than barrel steel and does no harm. S/S brushes are harder than barrel steel is definetly a no no. Nylon may surprise you to know is very abrasive If you doubt this look at the carbide eye on yout fishing rod where nylon line has worn groves into it.

Maybe I won't bother looking for nylon brushes after all.

[Vindalbakken]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

But what it you have a rough spot that is collecting copper? The more shots without cleaning, the greater the build up. Certainly each gun is unique but I think a new barrel that is showing a lot of copper build up after only a couple shots should be cleaned more often during break in than one that isn't.

Wouldn't it only collect copper till the rough spot was covered by copper and then it would be smooth? Or does the copper jacket strip the copper in the bore with each passage?

[elkhunter11]

Wouldn't it only collect copper till the rough spot was covered by copper and then it would be smooth? Or does the copper jacket strip the copper in the bore with each passage?

From my own experiences,I believe that copper deposits in the bore continue to strip copper off of successive bullets.

[Buckhead]

Originally Posted by Vindalbakken

Maybe I won't bother looking for nylon brushes after all.

You are correct. Grit gets embedded in the nylon. You need to change them often.

[6.5x47 lapua]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I sat in on a seminar by Kenny Jarrett a couple years ago and while he echoed exactly what you are saying about quality difference, he stressed how critical it was to still go through a proper break in proceedure. No matter how good the barrel or the reamer, there is always going to be a difference between the machining in the throat and the riflings and that's where break-in is critical...The only way to get these surfaces to match is by shooting bullets through the rifle and he stressed how important it was to do that with a proper regime.

first hand experience tells me what i know about this subject.you bring up kenny jerrett,i bring up gale mcmillan who says the opposite.the minute rough marks left from chambering are gone very fast and are so minute i doubt you could tell the diffrence in accuracy.maybe a seasoned benchrest shooter can tell but i and most people cant on the bench.on a brand new barrel job that i do i shoot and clean twice.the first and second shots basically tell me i cut a good chamber and i send a clean rifle out the door.

[catnthehat]

Guys, you may as well ask what the best method of rifling is - button versus cut!
You are going to get 15 different opinions from 15 different shooters and barrel smiths!
Myself, I have great respect for Bill Shehane, but Gale MacMillan CANNOT be discounted.
Same with Shilen and Douglas - who's right?
it's a crap shoot.....
Cat

Originally Posted by Vindalbakken

Wouldn't it only collect copper till the rough spot was covered by copper and then it would be smooth? Or does the copper jacket strip the copper in the bore with each passage?

My thought is that it continues to build up, at least from what I've seen in bore scope photos.

Originally Posted by custom gunworx

first hand experience tells me what i know about this subject.you bring up kenny jerrett,i bring up gale mcmillan who says the opposite.the minute rough marks left from chambering are gone very fast and are so minute i doubt you could tell the diffrence in accuracy.maybe a seasoned benchrest shooter can tell but i and most people cant on the bench.on a brand new barrel job that i do i shoot and clean twice.the first and second shots basically tell me i cut a good chamber and i send a clean rifle out the door.

You are likely 100% correct about accuracy but I'd just worry about the long-term barrel damage a rough spot could cause if copper is allowed to build up on it. Likely not a big deal as you pointed out on custom barrels but on something like a Remington 710? Anyhow, lots of schools of thought and I just subscribe to the better safe than sorry school and let each barrel tell me how much break in is required.

[6.5x47 lapua]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

But what it you have a rough spot that is collecting copper? The more shots without cleaning, the greater the build up. Certainly each gun is unique but I think a new barrel that is showing a lot of copper build up after only a couple shots should be cleaned more often during break in than one that isn't.

so how do you know if it is a rough spot in the barrel or a cumlitive condition due to barrel choke?.i have read many articles written by many of the top bench shooters who say some of the best groups they ever shot the" copper was pouring out the barrel".unless you have an air gauge,etc. you should shoot groupss first before firing rounds for nothing and cleaning.

[wwbirds]

Vindalbakken, although I have the proper sized brass or bronze brushes I am using nylon specifically because of the Barnes CR 10 for just like the Ammonia 26 that another member here is looking for to remove the stubborn copper fouling the CR 10 is high in ammonia so chemically cleans copper fouling through dissolving it rather than a physical cleaner. The ammonia would eat my copper or bronze brushes.
Sounds like there are lot that have a break in routine.
thanks for your input
Rob

[6.5x47 lapua]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Guys, you may as well ask what the best method of rifling is - button versus cut!
You are going to get 15 different opinions from 15 different shooters and barrel smiths!
Myself, I have great respect for Bill Shehane, but Gale MacMillan CANNOT be discounted.
Same with Shilen and Douglas - who's right?
it's a crap shoot.....
Cat

absolutely cat.

[catnthehat]

For me, I was taught at a very young age that the end result is what goes on at the target, not what goes on as far as rifle condition , set up, barrel wear , or whatever.

If a rifle shoots well even though it has had 100 rounds through it without de-coppering, great.
If it needs to be de-coppered after 20, so be it, if it needs to be cleaned continually after 5, then the barrel gets made into a tent peg!
That is for match rifles.
hunting rifles can generally have a bit different baseline for me.
However, what the barrel looks like to the naked eye, or through a borescope, is a different matter to what happens with 5 five shot groups.
A good friend of mine who was an accuracy fanatic and won at Raton many times, was nutz about keeping his silhouette rifles free of copper.
His 270 hunting rifle would show copper at the muzzle with two shots, but still printed 1 inch or better at 100.
Whatever he pointed it at died. different criteria for two different applications, for sure.

Cat

Just remember to coat your barrel with a good oil when you put it away in storage whether you leave copper in the bore or not (how do you tell if you don't have a bore scope anyway...). Rust doesn't sleep....add dissimilar metals and some humidity and nasty rust starts which usually worsens if not addressed... Do the rust pits make a difference...depends...

How many of you inspect your bores with a borescope (say Hawkeye or equivalent) before and after?

[twofifty]

wwbird, one thing that most here likely agree
will make a difference to your 22-250's accuracy and barrel life is
to avoid too many closely-spaced shots - no matter what your cleaning regimen is.

The throat or leade erosion and alligatoring from overheated steel will quickly ruin an otherwise good rifle.

In the heat of summer, with a heavy barrel 22-250, I'd guesstimate after 6 to 7 fast shots you're at the point where throat wear is accelarated.

edit: to answer the question, my rifle was last bore-scoped 3 years ago, by a smith; he saw some light alligatoring.

I know the throat has eroded since as I've measured where the ogive contacts the rifling and have been seating the bullets a bit longer this year. That's after approx. only 750 rds, and being careful, except for a couple three times where I touched off 10 quick rds. Barrels really do wear out fast when they overheat.

[wwbirds]

thanks twofifty but it is unlikely that I will overheat the barrel as I already had 3 22 setups for coyotes but the promotion that got me the new varmint hunter to try was too good to resist.
I have a custom made ZKK with a custom easton barrel that is so old the dies are called 22 varmint from Hollywood dies and it has seen lots of use and still prints 3/8th of an inch although I probably contribute to opening those groups up on a bad day.
Rob

[spurly]

I have had , quite a few rifles, but have never followed any break in procedures.If a rifle is reasonably accurate, I feel I can make better use of my time by bedding or other forms of accurising.If I feel it is fouling extremely bad, I will firelap it.I have had customs, semicustoms, and production rifles, and about 90% all shot fairly well, and some extremely well.