Trouble Seating Bullets - any Thoughts?

[sevenmil]

Loaded up some .280 ammo the other night with barnes 140 gr TSX boat tails. On about the 25th round, I could not get the bullet to seat. I pushed a little harder on the ram and it wouldn't go. Pulled the ram down and the bullet stayed up in the die against the seater plug. So now I have a bullet up in the seater die. Got a little agitated and decided to give it one last push and the bullet seated but I sure had to reef on it. Continued on with no problems until the very last round (round 50), where I ran into the same problem again. Only this time it was REALLY tough to seat the bullet.......... the same thing happened; the bullet again stayed up against the seater plug when I pulled the ram down. Have never had this happen in 25 years of reloading and then twice in one session. Any thoughts as to what could have caused the problem? Do I dare fire these rounds or will they develop excessive pressure? I am at a loss to explain it. Anyone had a similar experience?

[catnthehat]

Three questions:
When was the last time you cleaned your dies, and is the OAL the same as the rest of the cartridges?
Hornady dies?
Cat

[elkhunter11]

Do you have a good chamfer on the inside of the neck? The grooves in the shank of the TSX can cause issues if the inside of the neck is not adequately chamfered, and the bullet is not perfectly aligned, as you try and seat it.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Do you have a good chamfer on the inside of the neck? The grooves in the shank of the TSX can cause issues if the inside of the neck is not adequately chamfered, and the bullet is not perfectly aligned, as you try and seat it.

If it's jammed that hard as EH11 suggests in the above, I would also check to see if those two rounds chamber, I have seen i the past where the odd case shoulder buckled slightly because of it!
Cat

[sevenmil]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Three questions:
When was the last time you cleaned your dies, and is the OAL the same as the rest of the cartridges?
Hornady dies?
Cat

It has been awhile since I cleaned the dies. Although I can't imagine a bullet seating die needing to be cleaned too often. I could be wrong on that though.
The O.A.L. is the same as the rest.
I am using RCBS dies. Wondered if maybe I chamfered the outside of the necks too much and not enough on the inside, creating a bur or funny angle that dug into the bullets in question as I tried to seat them. Did notice copper shavings all around the case mouth after the bullets were seated, especially on the second one that gave me problems.

[sevenmil]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Do you have a good chamfer on the inside of the neck? The grooves in the shank of the TSX can cause issues if the inside of the neck is not adequately chamfered, and the bullet is not perfectly aligned, as you try and seat it.

I wondered about that as well. I always chamfer them, and the rest of the bunch seated just fine. These two did not want to seat, no way. Finally had to get a little western with them.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by sevenmil

It has been awhile since I cleaned the dies. Although I can't imagine a bullet seating die needing to be cleaned too often. I could be wrong on that though.
The O.A.L. is the same as the rest.
I am using RCBS dies. Wondered if maybe I chamfered the outside of the necks too much and not enough on the inside, creating a bur or funny angle that dug into the bullets in question as I tried to seat them. Did notice copper shavings all around the case mouth after the bullets were seated, especially on the second one that gave me problems.

Sounds like either not enough chamfer or a bullet not quite aligned properly.
Sometimes there can be stuff stuck up inside the seating die plug and this gets the bullet misaligned, or the bullet is started too crooked.....
Cat

[Fordpilot83]

Did you measure the two problem bullets? Odd that two are so difficult, i know the odds of them being the wrong diameter but sometimes..the simplest answer is right. Good luck

[sevenmil]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Sounds like either not enough chamfer or a bullet not quite aligned properly.
Sometimes there can be stuff stuck up inside the seating die plug and this gets the bullet misaligned, or the bullet is started too crooked.....
Cat

I wondered the same thing. Maybe a combination of both. I'll take the die apart and clean it, see if I have the same problem. Have been using TSX bullets since they came on the market and have never had a problem......

[tchardy1972]

Originally Posted by Fordpilot83

Did you measure the two problem bullets? Odd that two are so difficult, i know the odds of them being the wrong diameter but sometimes..the simplest answer is right. Good luck

This is what I was thinking. I have seen different bullets in a box but they were the same diameter just different weights.

[SkytopBrewster]

I like to give mine a light spray of one shot case lube and let it dry before charging cases, the bullets slide in slicker than cat ****, also use a vld type carbide chamfer tool, the increased angle makes a big diff

[dogslayer403]

Is there a chance your necks need anealing and is not sizing proper? or your expander on the sizing die is worn out

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by sevenmil

It has been awhile since I cleaned the dies. Although I can't imagine a bullet seating die needing to be cleaned too often. I could be wrong on that though.
The O.A.L. is the same as the rest.
I am using RCBS dies. Wondered if maybe I chamfered the outside of the necks too much and not enough on the inside, creating a bur or funny angle that dug into the bullets in question as I tried to seat them. Did notice copper shavings all around the case mouth after the bullets were seated, especially on the second one that gave me problems.

True enough, but if your sizing die is dirty, it's the one which will cause subsequent issues with seating. Couple that with improper neck chamfering, problems will be compounded. If it were me, I would pull the suspect rounds for safety's sake and start over again. No sense getting hurt over a hobby.

[spurly]

Always changer the inside of your case necks, I use a 15 degree changer tool
And also run a brush through them, lightly coated with dry graphite.

[DaleJ]

OP didn't say if bullets hung up upon entering case mouth or at the end of the seating stroke. Shavings might indicate seater die is performing an unwanted crimp. If cases don't need trimming back the die out a couple turns.

[SkytopBrewster]

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...ullet-seating/

[gitrdun]

Thanks for posting that article Skytop. I have the Lyman Ultrasonic cleaner and will have to watch for that. Mind you, I anneal my match cases making the necks softer and easier to stretch.

[catnthehat]

I've found that even after living the insides of the case neck that even after wiping it with a dry patch there is enough left to keep it a conditioned
Cat

[SkytopBrewster]

Everyone looks at me funny when I say I like the one shot for seating, just a very light mist, when seating they glide in there nice. They advertise this WILL NOT effect ignition. If you let it dry a couple minutes the powder does not stick to the lube when charging.

[gitrdun]

Sure would be nice to not having to add yet another step to case prep though. I wish my wife would take an interest in it...lol

[SkytopBrewster]

I like to do a full tray at a time. I usually prime a full tray, give them a shot of lube (takes about 2 seconds) then charge, then seat. This is why I was concerned about the amount of time the dispenser took. Just the way I like to do it. Charge a full tray then eyeball them all for powder level then start seating. Don't claim to be a reloading expert, just the way I liketo do it.

[sevenmil]

Originally Posted by DaleJ

OP didn't say if bullets hung up upon entering case mouth or at the end of the seating stroke. Shavings might indicate seater die is performing an unwanted crimp. If cases don't need trimming back the die out a couple turns.

They were tough to seat right from the get go. I always go slowly so as to avoid alignment problems, make sure the bullet is sitting straight, et. Case necks were chamfered. The bullets, as mentioned were barnes 140 gr tsx boat tails. The rest of the batch went in slicker than slick. I have never seen bullets so tough to seat. Would have abandoned ship if they hadn't been stuck up against the seater plug. Figured the best way to get them out was to make them seat whether they wanted to or not.......it worked but man I had to apply the elbow grease.

[sevenmil]

Originally Posted by DaleJ

OP didn't say if bullets hung up upon entering case mouth or at the end of the seating stroke. Shavings might indicate seater die is performing an unwanted crimp. If cases don't need trimming back the die out a couple turns.

Forgot to add, seater die was not set to perform crimp. Cases were trimmed, and as mentioned, chamfered.

[Pudelpointer]

Sevenmill, a number of questions have been asked that you have not answered:

How many times has this brass been worked? Does it requires annealing?

Have you measured the two bullets that gave you problems?

[sevenmil]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

Sevenmill, a number of questions have been asked that you have not answered:

How many times has this brass been worked? Does it requires annealing?

Have you measured the two bullets that gave you problems?

The bullets measured at .282 straight across the board including the offending culprits, but I am down onto the ogive with the calipers due to how deep the bullets are seated in this particular load. So diameter isn't an issue as these are .284 bullets. The rounds have been fired three times, this is the fourth time seating a bullet. Remington brass, which is what I have used with this load from day one. Extra hard brass or a funny burr/improper chamfer or combination of both are the only things that make sense to me.

[Pudelpointer]

Thanks.

All I can suggest is easy on the Herculean effort.

Any time a reloading step shows any resistance, stop. Check everything before trying again.

[sevenmil]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

Thanks.

All I can suggest is easy on the Herculean effort.

Any time a reloading step shows any resistance, stop. Check everything before trying again.

I was not too keen on pushing that hard either. Both times when I felt resistance and pulled the ram down the bullet stayed up in the die. My options were to push harder and try to seat the bullet or pull the die out of the press and try to find a way to extract the bullet from the die. In any event, I opted to try seating again and it worked, just was not expecting that kind of resistance.

[tchardy1972]

Originally Posted by sevenmil

I was not too keen on pushing that hard either. Both times when I felt resistance and pulled the ram down the bullet stayed up in the die. My options were to push harder and try to seat the bullet or pull the die out of the press and try to find a way to extract the bullet from the die. In any event, I opted to try seating again and it worked, just was not expecting that kind of resistance.

Just hope nothing got bent in the process. The seater plug comes out easy.

[Cowtown guy]

Originally Posted by SkytopBrewster

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...ullet-seating/

Great link. Thanks