New to shooting - Caliber advice

[Tactical Lever]

And the 30-06, with a 200 gr. BT will still deliver 1500 ft/lbs of energy at 500.

What's not apparent is that a heavier bullets momentum can be more important than the measure of kinetic energy. And out of all the cartridges you mentioned, only the 30-06 would be meeting the legal minimum to hunt bison in the Yukon.

[catnthehat]

The only thing I would add is to try and find a level headed mentor that can help you along the your journey
Cat

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by 3blade

You’ve never tracked an elk after dark in the bush on a 45 degree slope have you

No, much as I love my 243 for deer, it is NOT an everything gun. 270 minimum for elk and moose, or you track it and pack it yourself.

I'm with you you on the matter of the .243. Nothing like smacking a monster bull elk at very reasonable range, right in the lungs with a 100 gr bullet, and watch it trot away....and have the blood trail completely dry up....and see a great big rack found miles away show up on the cabin the next year, and wonder...nah it couldn't be..

So I hear, anyway!

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by EZM

I have nothing to add to this thread that hasn't already been said by people that know more far more about this than I do ....... but I absolutely LOVE this quote ..... it's like poetry and wisdom .....

Nothing wrong with the tried, tested and true 308, 30-06 or 7mm Rem Mag for a "one gun" set up IMO

Thanks!

Yup, remember a few fellas bought into the .450 Marlin a few years back, and they're struggling to find ammo now. The 45-70, wasn't much of a challenge to find and reload for.

My BIL bought a short mag, and it's near impossible to find brass. I looked around and bought dies, but never reloaded for it, because brass... And factory are probably about $120/box now and that's just whatever you can find is what you buy.

[Twisted Canuck]

In fairness, though I personally prefer something heavier for elk, my friend's 16 year old son dropped his first bull a couple years back at 250 yards with a .243, one shot and dropped in his tracks. That kid has eerie luck though, you should see the disgusting monster wt buck he got the year before, his first ever. Same rifle.



Ok, here's his buck.

[Battle Rat]

For reference I’m 6 ft, 190 lbs.

Right now looking at:
7PRC - Extended range and future growth, heavy recoil - can I out train it?
280AI - good ballistics with low recoil, limited rifle & ammo selection (am I letting social media get to me?)
30-06 - versatile bullet selection, lacks long range
308 or 6.5Creedmore - easy to shoot, concerns with future growth


In the above section please look at these as assumptions rather than gospel.
Recoil will vary weight of the rifle and the weigtf of the projectile.
Your body size will generally be affected by recoil more than a smaller framed person but large frames can adapt and even enjoy heavy recoil, so consider that as subjective to the individual.
As for long range, that is also subjective and restricted by personal implemented limitations.
As you have stated that 500 yards is a good maximum shot and you are already ahead of the game by setting that as a goal/limit.
All of the cartridges you have listed have adequate energy at that range.
500 yards is not considered long range by today's standard, and available equipment, but a hunter should accept that it is still very long shot.
At that range there is a significant degree of error and every effort to close that distance should be attempted.
If you are open to evaluating some advise, mine as others is offered free of charge.
You won't go wrong by selecting sometching in the middle. There are dozens of cartridges above and below the 30-06 that will serve you well.
When in dought, go bit bigger rather than smaller ( read 6,5 CM here).
Don't take advice from anyone that has a strong opinion on one specific cartridge. I swear I will throat punch the next guy that tells me the 7mm08 is the GOAT.
Don't take advice from the counter of any gun store, especially big box stores.
Don't be afraid to try a new cartridge. You can always sell it.
Don't be afraid if a " hard kicking" cartridge, this can be managed and even enjoyed. It's sort of like rough sex and not everyone has the balls for it.
If you stay away from high speed magnum cartridges, just about any cheap cup and core bullet will work.
If you are new to the sport, it will be much more economical and beneficial to shoot often and for that, let the cost of factory ammo be a determining factor in your selection of cartridge.
You have already made a great decision to get involved with new sport.

[32-40win]

A 243/6mm of some form will do what needs doing for the most part, just pair it with a good bullet. may need to be a bit picky on shots.
Pretty much any cartridge that is fathered by the 308, 7x57, 303, 30-06 case will work just fine for 90% of applications, anywhere in the world, just a matter of how heavy a bullet you want to launch, how much recoil you handle well.

Old school thought is a heavier bullet will be better for hunting, they do have some advantages, but, they aren't necessarily the best for shooting comfort, and if you aren't comfortable enough to be able to practice with it, it may cause you more problems than it's worth. Magnumitis has been around since about 1912 or so when the cases for the 300 & 375H&H were designed, whole point was to launch the heaviest weight bullet for the caliber faster, keep adding powder. Nowadays, they're revisiting the 404 Jeffrey and 416 Rigby cases to build off for the WSM's. Ultramags, etc., to make a non-belted magnum.

Think of it as this, 7-08 is based off a 308 case, 140/150gr bullet design, 7x57 is the granddaddy of them all, 150/160gr design, 280Rem is based on 30-06 and a 140-160gr design, 7RM was a 140-175gr design, 7PRC is 160gr & up, 28 Nosler is 160gr & up. the 7PRC and 28Nos were designed to launch the heavier bullets faster and farther for the 500yd plus crowd, all the smaller cartridges were designed for 500yds or less. The 500yd plus stuff wasn't much of anything, til people came back from Afghanistan and started really working on that end of things.

If you were to buy yourself a reloading manual, or a book like Cartridges of the World to really read, you can see all of this, there is a lot of stuff that was done 60-120 yrs ago, that has been modified for the newer powders and bullets and actions designed since then. Some was to gain speed, some to suit specific bullets, some for better efficiency out of a smaller cartridge and giving the same performance as the larger one did. The 7x57 to the 30-06 to the 308Win , to the 223Rem, now to the current adoption of the NGSW 27cal military guns is a great example. There are always tradeoffs, understanding what they are, and what they really mean, is worthwhile.

As a young person, don't discount reloading, it can help you down the road with maintaining your ability to practice and provide you with opportunities you may not otherwise be able to pursue. Don't have to buy the newest whizziest things for tooling, don't have to buy it all at once, you have the time to acquire it slowly. It'll teach you a lot and open many doors for you.

[6.5 shooter]

Reloading does not need to be expensive! If you follow a couple simple steps.
1) buy a reloading manual or two ~$50
2) buy a Classic Lee Loader ~$50
3) 1 lb. of powder ~ $65
4) 1 sleeve of primers (100 pcs.)~ $65
5) 100, Brass of your choice ~$100
6) 100 projectiles of your choice ~$65
7) 1 wooden mall. ~$20
8) These are enough components to load 100 rounds of pure joy.

So.... for ~$415 bucks your ready to start your reloading journey. IF you enjoy the game? the prices will rise (much like golf) as your skills improve. This will serve you well as a starting point. READ the reloading manual first so you know which powder, primers, bullets and brass you will want/ need for your rifle. This is exactly how I started reloading, everything was used, except for the powder, bullets and primers. It may seem like a daunting task at first, but in time you will wonder why you never started sooner.

[JD848]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

Reloading does not need to be expensive! If you follow a couple simple steps.
1) buy a reloading manual or two ~$50
2) buy a Classic Lee Loader ~$50
3) 1 lb. of powder ~ $65
4) 1 sleeve of primers (100 pcs.)~ $65
5) 100, Brass of your choice ~$100
6) 100 projectiles of your choice ~$65
7) 1 wooden mall. ~$20
8) These are enough components to load 100 rounds of pure joy.

So.... for ~$415 bucks your ready to start your reloading journey. IF you enjoy the game? the prices will rise (much like golf) as your skills improve. This will serve you well as a starting point. READ the reloading manual first so you know which powder, primers, bullets and brass you will want/ need for your rifle. This is exactly how I started reloading, everything was used, except for the powder, bullets and primers. It may seem like a daunting task at first, but in time you will wonder why you never started sooner.

X2 On this post . The sooner you start slowly reloading the better ,when you need ammo just reload what you need,no running to stores and finding the shelves empty of your favorite loads are sold out.

For a rifle ,6.5 prc or swede ,270 , 7mm rem, 3006 . All these have plenty of components for reloading or factory ammo.

Learning the art of hunting is what hunting is all about ,spend time learning animal behavior and that will be the biggest reward . As the years go by your hunting skills will make you enjoy it ten times more then just dropping something by luck.

Whatever you pick for a cartridge it will kill if your shot placement is proper .Don't over think it .

Lotsa older hunters passing away ,baby boomers are dropping and sometimes whole reloading kits go cheap .Guys buy them and break them up for a fast flip.

So do it while you got plenty of time .

All the best
JD

[elkhunter11]

There are many cartridges that will meet the requirements, of an all around big game cartridge to 500 yards. The key will be finding a good bullet, and a load that the rifle likes, and of course the person pulling the trigger. As far as factory loads go, the only way to find it, is to try various loads, and when you find the right load, buy a lot, and hope that the manufacturer doesn't change the recipe, as they often do. This is where handloading shines, you can develop a load for your rifle, and keep duplicating it for the next 40-50 years or more. As far as rifles go, for a lower price, Tikka and Howa have been very good for me, and medium to heavier barrel contours have been the easiest to develop accurate loads for. I have found that while I can usually get pencil weight contours to shoot well, the fussiest have been light weight fluted barrels. My most accurate factory rifles have been Cooper and Christensen, but Cooper is no longer an option, unless you find a used one. My most accurate factory rifle with factory loads ,is my Christensen Traverse in 6.5PRC, with the Hornady Precision Hunter load, it averaged .355" at 100m , for the first three groups fired . I don't normally even bother with factory loads, but I wanted to try the rifle, and had to wait for my dies to arrive. As far as cartridge choice, I still like the 7mmremmag, but the 6.5PRC would also be an excellent choice, and the 6.5x55 and 280AI have done well for me, although factory loads are more limited.

[Dean2]

When I was 14 I got my first lh rifle. A Savage 110 C in 300 Win Mag. I shot it at paper, yotes, gophers, grouse and game till I wore out he barrel and bought another one. Wore it and one more out before Remington came out with the LH 700 in 7 Rem mag. Switched to Rem for the nicer fit and finish. The point of the story is, you can do all the mental gymnastics you want about gun, scope yada yada. You learn to shoot well by shooting, a lot. Pick one and get at it. Shooting the 22 helps a ton too.

[eric2381]

Originally Posted by Ackleyman

You show interest in Antelope , Deer , Black bear , Moose and who knows once you get into it maybe Elk. I would go for a .270 and top it with GOOD rings and glass,[avoid Vortex scopes] You need one good rifle and optic , [to start] .

This is great advice. And it doesn’t have to be new. Zero it at 250yds and know your trajectory.

[Cageyc]

I had a 300 win mag and a 25-06. Sold both because of shoulder issues and picked up a 280 AI. For me it’s one rifle for all I now do. It does have a brake and has the recoil of a 243. It’s a real confidence builder. I do reload though which I find is easier than searching for factory ammo.
All the best in your decision.

[303carbine]

Originally Posted by LearnShareHunt

I am a new hunter and don't have a ton of experience behind a rifle. I was using various calibers last season, didn't have any issues but I didn't necessarily have the knowledge to understand what I should be looking/feeling for at that time.

I would prefer a "do it all" gun, antelope(in a decade lol) through moose and BB.

Regardless of what I end up with, the plan is to get a lot of trigger time and more than likely take part in a marksmanship school of some sort.

I’m torn between investing in a $2,500-$3,500 rifle (excluding scope) in a heavier caliber allowing me future growth at extended range or starting with a more introductory setup in something easier to shoot (but underwhelming) before buying something nice down the road. Not to save money but for skill development. I plan to complement either choice with a bolt-action .22 trainer for practice.


For reference I’m 6 ft, 190 lbs.

Right now looking at:
7PRC - Extended range and future growth, heavy recoil - can I out train it?
280AI - good ballistics with low recoil, limited rifle & ammo selection (am I letting social media get to me?)
30-06 - versatile bullet selection, lacks long range
308 or 6.5Creedmore - easy to shoot, concerns with future growth

Will a limbsaver and muzzle brake narrow the gap to a point where there's no/limited difference in recoil?

Will a .22 trainer allow me to develop the skills, even though it lacks recoil?

Ultimately Id like to take the buy once cry once approach and get something nice but if it will be a detriment long run Ill start slow and work my way up. I appreciate any insights or experiences you can share.

6.5x300 Weatherby, better than all mentioned.............

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by 303carbine

6.5x300 Weatherby, better than all mentioned.............

Can you get a mortgage for the ammunition and the replacement barrels?

[Pathfinder76]

The 270 WCF makes a lot of sense.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

The 270 WCF makes a lot of sense.

I think it makes more sense than many of them mentioned for sure
Cat

[GrandSlam]

30-06 or 270 Win

[elkhunter11]

A friend came to the range with me one day before skeet, and we shot clays to 500m with my Tikka Stainless Varmint in 6.5x55, that I bought new for $800, because Stoeger was clearing them out. He liked the rifle, but the deal was over, so I found him a lightly used Super Varmint with rings for $900. He bought a cheap loading kit, and was shooting sub 1/2moa with the rifle the first time out, and he has taken whitetailed deer, mule deer, and moose with it. It isn't a common cartridge, but Lapua brass is easy to find, recoil is light, and it is effective for Alberta big game. The point being, that many cartridges will work fine, regardless if they are the most common cartridges or not, or if the local store has a big variety of ammunition.

[Scott h]

I doubt many have gotten comfortable, AND competent with a rifle without shooting an awful lot of .22 shells, so that's where I'd suggest you start. Get a .22, and in this day and age a shooting range membership. It will get you out pulling the trigger, and exposed to lots of different people and their rifles. Your time would be much better spent getting proficient at shooting cans at 50 yards than pouring over ballistic tables comparing cartridges, because "they all do basically the same thing"!!! In my view buying an expensive new rifle would be a real waste of money, but I certainly understand the hesitancy to shop around for used equipment when you feel under educated on the subject. Spending time at a range, with a .22 will create opportunities for you to see other peoples rifles, AND in many cases be encouraged to shoot them. Let those same people know that you are in the market for a rifle and you'll be amazed at how many nicely set up guns/scopes are offered up a much better than new prices, because many/most shooters buy and sell constantly!

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by Scott h

I doubt many have gotten comfortable, AND competent with a rifle without shooting an awful lot of .22 shells, so that's where I'd suggest you start. Get a .22, and in this day and age a shooting range membership. It will get you out pulling the trigger, and exposed to lots of different people and their rifles. Your time would be much better spent getting proficient at shooting cans at 50 yards than pouring over ballistic tables comparing cartridges, because "they all do basically the same thing"!!! In my view buying an expensive new rifle would be a real waste of money, but I certainly understand the hesitancy to shop around for used equipment when you feel under educated on the subject. Spending time at a range, with a .22 will create opportunities for you to see other peoples rifles, AND in many cases be encouraged to shoot them. Let those same people know that you are in the market for a rifle and you'll be amazed at how many nicely set up guns/scopes are offered up a much better than new prices, because many/most shooters buy and sell constantly!

100% best decision a person can make.

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

A friend came to the range with me one day before skeet, and we shot clays to 500m with my Tikka Stainless Varmint in 6.5x55, that I bought new for $800, because Stoeger was clearing them out. He liked the rifle, but the deal was over, so I found him a lightly used Super Varmint with rings for $900. He bought a cheap loading kit, and was shooting sub 1/2moa with the rifle the first time out, and he has taken whitetailed deer, mule deer, and moose with it. It isn't a common cartridge, but Lapua brass is easy to find, recoil is light, and it is effective for Alberta big game. The point being, that many cartridges will work fine, regardless if they are the most common cartridges or not, or if the local store has a big variety of ammunition.

Been shooting 6.5x55 since I was 14, and it's a fine choice. One of the greats. light recoil, and a real performer with the heavier bullets.

I don't know if it's very common, but I wouldn't call it uncommon at all. I see it for sale everywhere, though not every store these days. I just buy PRVI ammo or some other affordable European brand for the brass.

[6.5 shooter]

My second big game rifle was a 6.5x55sm. I have never not, had one in my stable and if I were forced to sell all my other rifles and had to choose just one, I would choose it every time!
It (the cartridge) has harvested every animal on the planet. And will continue to do so for another 150 years.