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Originally Posted by Rocky7
We already know that registered firearms owners were far less dangerous than the general population. That suggests strongly that our efforts were, and are, wasted in the entire registration/PAL scheme. Those who follow such laws are inherently law-abiding. There was/is no point; it is a waste of time and money. All that our present laws do is set the table for prosecuting people for PAL offences or "prescribed storage" offences that were never a threat to anyone's safety.
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Wholeheartedly agreed. The one use for those stats collected during that time that could be of benefit beyond the collosal waste was how many law abiding owners and how many illegal acts. Those hard numbers would absolute proof in showing that it is not as big an issue as gets harped on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky7
No, we cannot. These issues ARE a contest between Statists and conservatives. Gun control is not, at it's heart, about guns. It is about control. If that is not realized, we will be exhausted with endless shadow boxing and answering endless hypothetical, emotional claims. We need to see this debate for what it is.
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For some, not for all. To a certain degree we're all statists. We pay taxes, we want a government to maintain certain basic services and rewards; some of us have different definitions as to what services the government should supply. That is also another level of debate.
I doubt that you'd like to see a day where anyone can walk into any store, put money down and buy whatever firearm they see fit, regardless of qualification on that firearm or criminal record. So educational requirements are a form of control as is background checks. At this point, I do believe that i just put words in your mouth, however, any checklist of "sign here" "learn this" is a control. The debate for me, and I believe most of us is, what is the acceptable level of control we are willing to put on ourselves in this community?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky7
There is only one way - draw a hard line, be relentless with the facts and speak plainly. Our opponents need to be outed.
I do agree that we should make efforts to educate open-minded gun opponents where we can but my experience is that those sheeple are in the minority and are not our true opponent. People like Ploughshares, the Coalition and IANSA and the divide/conquer politicians who find those organizations useful are not interested in fact or reason. Gun Zombies want control. Until they have it, they will never rest. That is the field where we need to meet them head-on. If not, we will be in a game where the deck is stacked and we will lose.
The facts are all on our side. We just need to be willing to relentlessly plough through the labels and snide derision that we will hear from our opponents and know what we are dealing with.
Great thread.
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And here we agree again. There will be those we can reason with and the numbers do not lie. Let's assume that the 1.9million people registered through the PAL/RPAL program own three firearms (shotgun, varmint rifle, and rifle, an all around combo) that brings us up to an estimate (very rough estimate) of 5.7million firearms in this country legally. How many shooting instances of people going into buildings and shooting more then one or two people have happened this year in canada? two? three? So for the sake of two or three, not even licensed or legal firearm incidents, we ban, raise control issues, and demonify 1.9million people?
There's some facts that need addressed right there. we will not be able to do that by emotional arguments, comparing pro-control. pro-abolishment people to dictators. I'd rather get those middle people on board who are reasonable as opposed to drive them away with our slogans and hyperbole. Let the guys on the other side do that; it'll only drive the reasonable right to us.