Quote:
Originally Posted by rem338win
The funny thing is I followed them more than far enough and saw them moving around on days after this. Im also talking about a whopping example of two with wounds on both sides.
What you're forgetting is the deers movement and shot angles. And Murphy.
I've also been there for animals recovered shot in nearly the same spot. They go a very long way and for two of the animals I saw the lungs were touched but not significant. The killer was the slow bleed on the well protected arteries on the bottom of the spine.
These shots leave little to no blood trails and are difficult to follow.
I've also been a part of shooting enough deer with archery tackle to wonder at how stupid your setup or shot distance would have to be to get a lack of penetration on this shot.
And looking at the photo again it's clearly at the back of the shoulder and under the spine. It is in the top of the rib cage.
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If you had ever cut that artery under the spine you would know it's anything but a slow bleed. However, the muscle on top of the spine would be. The lungs directly below the spine aren't as vascular as they are lower down and due to gravity it's not going to bleed as well from a lower lung shot but this is where a sharp broadhead becomes important both for the amount of blood and to cut that tough artery if your arrow goes past it. Here's what it looks like when you get the artery we are talking about.
You find it surprising a guy wouldn't get penetration on a shot like that? Most guys know very little about their gear and what it takes to get consistent penetration on tough shots. Let's just consider how many are properly tuned and can group field tips, broadheads and bare shafts together out at their max range. My bow will group all three types of arrows together at 70 meters because I can tune a bow and I know the arrow flying straight behind the broadhead is the most important component of penetration. I often hunt with 5 different broadheads in my quiver and my bow is tuned well enough I can screw any straight spinning broadhead into my arrow and it will group with all the rest of my arrows.
Then let's take how many guys have put enough thought into the structural integrity of their arrow. How many of you can go out and shoot your hunting arrow into a paving stone or large rock at 4 or 5 yards on a direct and glancing shot and not have anything fail? Mine will pass and I know they will because I tested them. I didn't say cinder block for a reason, those things are soft and very easy to blow apart with an arrow.
Arrow weight, what should we say. Most guys are chasing speed and don't realize how important arrow weight is to potential penetration. Sure a soda straw 380-420 grain arrow puts out some nice numbers over the chrono, tightens your pin gap (hypothetically), is easy to put together with off the shelf components and works if your shots perfect. They even work inconsistently on tough shots but they can't be counted on. Now I say hypothetically because the difference between 300 fps and 270 fps on your pins is a lot less then a guy would think. It's almost insignificant although I don't have a picture of my pins with those two arrow speeds. I used to have a pic of two arrows in my target, one at 420 grains and one at 530, both shot from the same bow with the same pin at 50 meters and the two arrows were about 3" apart with the heavier arrow directly under the lighter arrow. I usually shoot into a sand bank for a target. The 400ish grain arrows usually penetrate about 5", the 530 grain arrows might penetrate a foot, when I set up my water buff arrows they were out of sight in the sand. I had to dig them out from about 4" under the sand. That in no way extrapolates to penetration on an animal but my point is heavy arrows PENETRATE.
Then guys shoot mechanical broadheads, the worst penetrating broadheads as a group that you could tip your arrow with. Most of them are doing it because they can't tune their fixed heads but regardless they screw these poor penetrating, weak broadheads onto arrows that are both to light and aren't flying straight and go hunt. Then can't figure out why they didn't get the penetration they expected or the animal they wanted.
We've got guys in this thread who don't know anatomy. There's a guy near the beginning who chalked it up to a bad shot. Says it's to far forward... I don't want to shoot deer in the butt and this shot was nowhere near to far forward, simply to high.
Your telling me the shot was under the spine. Do you know where the spine is? I don't keep pictures of that on my phone so I'll use one off the net.
Here's the deer I shot to far back and to high that produced the blood trail above. Luckily I got the artery but my point is, look how low I hit her and how far back. Then compare that to the op's deer and the pic of the half of deer and realize how much lower the spine is as you get closer to the front leg. The scar on the op's deer is not under the spine. (In this pic the leg is forward and out of the picture but that would be the armpit if you will in the bottom right of the picture.)
Now let's talk about Murphy. That's the reason I set my rig up to handle any conceivable impact. I try and leave Murphy at home but he always seems to hunt with me and over the years I've had my share of screw ups. I've learned though and tested, researched and changed instead of believing a shop can paper tune my bow and it's actually tuned, that light arrows will penetrate every time I need them to, that arrows can't penetrate bone, that mechanicals are a good choice because they fly like field tips and are easy to tune, that if I hadn't got that boulder my arrow wouldn't of broken etc.
Don't get me wrong either, mechanicals aren't all bad and I shoot a few different types on certain animals under certain situations. I've got the arrow weight and tuned bow to handle them and I'm aware of their limitations. Most days though I'm shooting a 1-1/4" to 1.5" fixed blade because I know they're going to penetrate and they produce big blood trails.
The other thing I'll point out is there are guys shooting right through elephant, hippo, cape and water buffalo and then there are guys who can't get through a whitetail. Doesn't that seem like a problem?