[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Diesel_wiesel

the area I live only has sharp tailed grouse and Hungarian partridges, I have to drive 4 hours north for ruffed grouse, and spruce grouse, and 5 hours southwest for pheasants,
my young Chesapeake bay retriever does very well on both sharp tails, and huns, I bought 6 pheasant roosters and set them out in a field, she was confused about the first 3 but it was game on for the other 3
as for hunt tests and field trials a dog is only as good as its trainer,
my female chessie this past fall retrieved over 300 birds , geese, and ducks, cripples, and dead, and big nasty ganders, at just under 5 months old she retrieved her first snow goose, and had never even seen one before or even smelled one
I went out with a local outfitter just to get her some hunting time,
she didn't get her JR hunt test status last summer, that was no fault of hers
I blame myself and lack of experience and knowledge on that,
as for the hunt tests, I cant afford a trainer at $900 to $1200 a month, but if I could , I have no doubt that my female chessie could go the distance to grand master at the national level,
so if one dog is better then the other , look at the trainer and who is handling the dog, before you judge the dog, also a lot has to do with the breeding and blood lines, if you learn to read and understand pedigrees, and pick the best you feel you can, 1/2 the battle is won right there, the rest is up to you and your training ability, and that is never ending

I agree on both traning and breeding. I have hunted over quite a few dogs, and I have shot over many more during NAVHDA tests, and some dogs have much more natural ability, and learn much faster than others. Some dogs become great hunters with lesser skilled trainers, and some dogs will never be better than average, regardless of the training. My personal weakness is a lack of experience in training dogs, but I was fortunate to have a pup that learns quick, and has a lot of natural ability, so despite my shortcomings as a trainer, he is a very productive hunter. Other dogs of the same breed that I have hunted over did not produce as well despite months of professional training. They are more obedient, and they look more polished, but there weren't as productive at finding and working birds. As far as the pointer or retriever preference, if I was hunting primarily waterfowl, I would have a retriever, but for pheasants, sharptails, and Hungarian Partridge, I prefer a pointer. The more open the terrain, the more I prefer the pointer as you can have multiple dogs covering a lot of area, and the handlers don't have to be in shooting range of all of the dogs. I have hunted over as many as four pointers and we just watched the dogs, and when one went on point, they would remain until we walked over into range to flush the bird. Of course a retriever can be effective on open terrain, but I prefer not having to keep within shotgun range of the dog in open terrain. And in tight terrain either pointers or retrievers can also be effective, and I prefer to keep the dog much closer in that situation, regardless of the breed. I haven't hunted over both pointers and retrievers at the same time very often, so I am looking forward to hunting my dog alongside the pup sns2 is waiting for. It should be interesting.