Do You See What I See?
 

https://i.imgur.com/6vYdWSl.jpg

I have quite the array of brass for this rifle, much of it being range pick up brass.

A good tumbling exposed this issue to me.

Incipent case head separation!

Now I’m in hyper vigilant mode.

Just an FYI to all.

Any idea how many times that particular brass has been fired?

Likely some range brass from lord knows when.



The point is the somewhat tarnished cases all looked fine when they went in the tumbler last night, it’s amazing what one finds once things are all shined up.

Lots of old Tuddy Tuddies with too much head space. Not surprised to see this on range brass. Good you caught is before shooting it again.

Yup, I had it happen a while ago when a case head let go, and all that ejected from the Marlin was a 1/2” of case head. Solved easily enough with a pistol caliber bore brush and a cleaning rod, but it sure ramps up your diligence and the like there after.

303 brass I am guessing, fired once.

Ummm no.....

Dean eluded to the cartridge In post 4, and I also did in post 5 (Marlin).........

30-30 Winchester.

I never bother with range brass of unknown origin, too many unknowns.

That’s good when you’ve got un measurable wealth like yourself, but many reloaders just starting out, aren’t flush with cash, and range brass is their reality.

Things like 303 Brit I take a pass on due to the headspace issue far to many of the rear locking lug actions have in that chambering.

The amount of .270Win and 30-06, .300 Win Mag brass I’ve picked up at our range, and even the .257 Wby I’ve found(thanks whoever) and yes, even 30-30 brass is for the most part a safe endeavour, looking for lacquered primers, factory crimp marks and the like, are tell tale signs of once fired brass.

The caveat here is diligent case inspection even on known brass, and further that grungy tarnished brass hides imperfections.

It stands to reason that brass found at the range belonged to someone who doesn't hand load, therefore that brass was likely factory ammo, fired once. Unless, of course, a hand loader tossed it because it was worn out. I take mine home, even if I'm gonna toss it.

Stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime is false economy. I’ve done it. It’s like the old adage goes. Many know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

Exactly! I have used range brass in the past, but after seeing issues with loose primer pockets, case head separation, and inconsistent case capacities due to mixed lot numbers, I don't bother any more. With what a person pays for a rifle/,optics, dies, and the other components, I want good quality, consistent cases. As well, if you are looking for accuracy well below moa, preferably half moa, and you don't want to develop a load, and then have to do it again because the cases start developing issues, because of their previous firings. And with people now selling used cases that have been cleaned with steel pins, even well used cases look new.

Inconsistent case capacities seem to affect MV (and accuracy) more than inconsistent powder charges.

A friend picked up two boxes of 6.5 PRC and another found a box of 375 H&H brass . These are form hunting rifles but that brass shoots below MOA.
However I also see a ton of 308 and 223 bras as well, which I would never consider picking up .
Some fellas love sorting pick up brass, cleaning it and shooting it.
Then there are people like my lawyer owns a pile of Garands and uses pick up brass continually, he cannot see the advantage of buying new brass, and his guns are capable of MOA or better.

In my 8.15X46R I use pick up brass because I found absolutely no difference in the accuracy at 100 and 200 yards with new 30/30 brass after rezining it in the 8.15 dies and trimming to length.:)
Cat

If certain members can’t realize they are in the minority with their approach to reloading, we certainly are a sorry lot.

The grave majority of shooters and reloaders don’t shoot past 250 yds, and I’d wager they hunt a heap shorter than that too.

What sort of accuracy do you guys purport a 1952 vintage lever action 30-30 should get?

Or a pump Remington in 30-06?

Or a Varmint barrelled factory .223?

If you’re into the top end Uber accuracy game, what you do is certainly called for, but temper your mantra recognizing you are in a group only some dream of joining.

I am at the point where I can afford a new bag of brass. However, whenever I am at a range, I will ALWAYS go dumpster diving for brass. As often as not, it is the plastic sleeves from the box. Why in hell wouldn't I? I am no longer in the 5 year phase where I was flipping rifles monthly, and never knew what I may need.

I never sold what I found, but I sure have given lots away to friends I used to load for. I still have bags in the basement nicely counted and sorted.

I am gonna say this loud and clear because people need a reminder... NOT EVERYONE CAN AFFORD THE BEST OF EVERYTHING.

To start with, 15% of this province is out of work. Then add in people who are starting out in the game, have families, or any other number of things.

Sometimes we need to remember that before we post stuff (not just this thread).

Nothing wrong with range brass chucked in the can by someone who doesn't reload. You wouldn't believe how much 308 brass I would get after the cops packed up.

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It's not just about having the best, it's also about avoiding nasty surprises. If I see someone toss a box of once fired factory cases into the brass barrel, then I have picked them out, as I know that they are once fired, and that there won't be any surprises. Some people even put their fired cases back into the factory boxes, so they are sorted by lot, and those are also good finds. But I won't dig loose cases with mixed headstamps out of the barrel, because I don't know their history, or if they are from several lots with different capacities. If you find five or six cases today, another five or six tomorrow, and a dozen the next day, they are likely from different lots, and the case capacity may vary. Now if you are shooting a hunting rifle that isn't overly accurate, and you don't shoot past 200 yards, and you don't load to the maximum, then mixing cases may be fine, however many hunters will take that 500 yard shot at a game animal, or will load to book max with no work up, and a difference in cases can cause issues. I have seen people beating open bolts, because they used maximum book loads, and mixed cases, and tracking a wounded animal because your long range shot was a few inches off, is not a fun way to spend a day.

It’s not about accuracy. It’s about your face.

If I'm out and seeing people using new factory stuff that either I or my friends can use, I'll certainly grab it. I've used it for horse trading over the years as well. Doesn't take long to inspect it, and the payback on it is there down the road. Used it for plinker brass, saved the good stuff I bought for the designated purpose. Unfortunately, I own a bunch of stuff I don't find a lot of, if any, at the range, so it mostly gets used in horsetrading.

I have a friend that brought me some cases that he said wouldn't fit his shellholder. They looked fine, but the case heads were over .003" larger than new cases that I measured. Who knows what pressure they had been exposed to, thankfully they wouldn't fit the shellholder, so he didn't load them again. They may not have held a primer, but he primes with his press, so as long as the primers didn't fall out, he may not have noticed that they were loose.

Thus is why a smart person inspects before during and after reloading regardless of whether it is pick up brass or lot matched new brass.
I have found inperfections in new Winchester , Lapua and Remkngton brass among others ,over the years .
Cat

I should add, I only dumpster dive for cases that are obviously shiny new and once fired.

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I wasn't going to weigh in here but:


I agree that reloading mixed makes of brass is not a good idea and there are large variations in case capacity between makers. Rem 22 H holds 1.5 grains more powder than WW brass and that makes a big difference in pressure at each load. For example 12.6 grains of Lil'Gun in WW brass with a 40 Vmax is doing 3100 FPS, with Rem brass that same load is 2850 fps out of the same gun. Same is true in 308, Lapua has significantly less case capacity than Remington brass. Mixing these two in one loading is going to result in wide variations in pressure and velocity.

That said I see no issues in using quality brass picked up at the range. In fact, new brass has gotten so expensive I often buy factory ammo, shoot it and use the brass because it is cheaper than buying the empty cases new. Once fired factory loaded range brass, sort by maker, weigh brass and put into 2-3 grain batches. Once you get a batch of 50-100 that match, FL size and de-prime, tumble clean, trim and champher, inspect and reload.

When I was going through thousands of rounds of 223 shooting gophers you bet I was using range brass picked up after the Police shooting sessions. All same head stamp and once weight sorted into 3 grain batches it made great brass for bulk loading on the Dillon 550. When you are talking 3000 rounds on a gopher safari you don't really need to be spending the cost to buy that many brass new.

With prudent loading and inspection procedures there is absolutely nothing wrong with once fired brass. If you don't know how or aren't willing to properly prep and inspect the brass you probably shouldn't be loading anyhow, and this comment is NOT directed at Chuck or Elk because I know full well it doesn't apply to them, just a general comment that there are quite a few guys who load that maybe aren't as careful and diligent as they aught to be.


P.S. Anybody else notice that the last couple of days your posts are ending up with two or three extra gaps between paragraphs when you first post the reply. Have to end up editing and removing them every time.

Once fired is not an issue, but then again, the cases the OP posted pictures of, are likely not once fired. Not all cases found in the brass barrels at ranges are once fired, I know when I start noticing primers seating easier, or I see a neck or two cracking, I put the rest of that batch into my range brass, that is then tossed when it is fired. And since I use steel pins to clean my cases, some of them will look as shiny as once fired cases when I toll them in the brass barrel. Now if you notice the primers seating easier when you start to prime them great, but if you use the press to prime, there is a good chance that you won't notice this at all.

social distancing has been programmed in for everyone's safety

:sign0161:
Now that gave me a good laugh!

I have found cracked necks on new brass out of the bag. Inspection is boring but important.

The worst quality that I have seen recently, is with Winchester, they used to sell good cases, but now I avoid them, like I avoid Winchester primers.

I have had different experiences. My 22-250 only runs on Winchester brass and I have never had an issue. After a bad experience with CCI primers about 15 years ago I exclusively use Winchester primers and never had an issue. Your experience with poor Winchester quality and my disdain for CCI primers may be poorly drawn conclusions due to 1 or 2 poor items that could be with anyone's product. Possibly.

I have had multiple issues with Winchester cases, but that could be bad luck, the Winchester primer issue, is well known though, many people have had Winchester primers rupture , causing damage to bolt faces.