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-   -   Reloading (http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=329635)

firegod74 09-19-2017 09:36 AM

Reloading
 
Hi guys, I'm new to reloading myself, but I have assisted others so I'm familiar with the process.
I'm trying to work up a load for my 300wsm shooting Berger 168 Hunting VLD's and RL17 powder. I looked through some other forums and found a recipe a guy loves. He is loading 67.5 grains of RL17 and getting velocities of 3128ft/sec. This seems like a lot of powder for me based on tables I've seen in the past, so I went to Berger directly and asked them.
They sent me a table showing a min/max of 60/63 grains respectively, and a max speed of 3071.
Do you guys think Berger publishes low numbers for the sake of liability, or is this guy on the verge of producing hot loads that may lead to damage.
I'm not looking to shoot from mountain to mountain, I just want to kill a moose or deer in the regular 100-300 range, while using up the bergers I already have.
Thanks in advance.

mgvande 09-19-2017 09:53 AM

First question, where are you getting the RL17?

firegod74 09-19-2017 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgvande (Post 3625055)
First question, where are you getting the RL17?

I called P&D in Edmonton. They have some. Please don't take the last jug before thursday.

mgvande 09-19-2017 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firegod74 (Post 3625077)
I called P&D in Edmonton. They have some. Please don't take the last jug before thursday.

Of course not. I'm a nice guy.

Sharpie 09-19-2017 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firegod74 (Post 3625077)
I called P&D in Edmonton. They have some. Please don't take the last jug before thursday.

O boy, you just swindled yourself out of RL17 buy posting it on the internet. I wont be driving 3 hours to buy any but lots of local people now know.

firegod74 09-19-2017 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharpie (Post 3625125)
O boy, you just swindled yourself out of RL17 buy posting it on the internet. I wont be driving 3 hours to buy any but lots of local people now know.

They can take it all if in exchange one of them answers my damn question :)

mgvande 09-19-2017 11:38 AM

Load to the book data. Use a chrony to check. Don't use forum loads.

petew 09-19-2017 11:46 AM

Don't be smarter than the book / published loads.

Jeron Kahyar 09-19-2017 11:50 AM

67.5gr doesn't sound completely out to lunch behind a 168gr bullet in the 300 WSM.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloade...5&cartridge=83

That being said don't use his load data. Use the published data you were given. Start low and work our way up.

elkhunter11 09-19-2017 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petew (Post 3625166)
Don't be smarter than the book / published loads.

The book loads apply to the rifle and lots of components used to compile the manual. In some cases, it is perfectly safe to exceed the book loads, and in other cases some book loads are not safe in some rifles, Then again, the max load can vary up to 3-4 gr or more, from manual to manual for some cartridges.

petew 09-19-2017 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11 (Post 3625199)
The book loads apply to the rifle and lots of components used to compile the manual. In some cases, it is perfectly safe to exceed the book loads, and in other cases some book loads are not safe in some rifles, Then again, the max load can vary up to 3-4 gr or more, from manual to manual for some cartridges.

https://www.facebook.com/courtney.cr...4805300435846/

Ariu 09-19-2017 01:36 PM

QuickLoad
 
1 Attachment(s)
I run this scenario in QuickLoad. See attached. Pressure is close to max but not a real problem. This data is for reference - do not use them. As advised above, work your load up.

elkhunter11 09-19-2017 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petew (Post 3625266)


Yes I posted that video on this forum, but that isn't the result of a few grains too much powder, that is the result of a much more serious issue. And apparently, the rifle was a muzzeloader.

mgvande 09-19-2017 03:28 PM

I think I will build a sandbox with all the Rl17 I buy.

firegod74 09-19-2017 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariu (Post 3625272)
I run this scenario in QuickLoad. See attached. Pressure is close to max but not a real problem. This data is for reference - do not use them. As advised above, work your load up.

Thanks! This is exactly what I was looking for. I will definitely stay within Bergers load specs. I was just amazed that you could go so far outside them.

mgvande 09-19-2017 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariu (Post 3625272)
I run this scenario in QuickLoad. See attached. Pressure is close to max but not a real problem. This data is for reference - do not use them. As advised above, work your load up.

How much is quickload? How useful do you find it?

Ariu 09-19-2017 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgvande (Post 3625551)
How much is quickload? How useful do you find it?

I paid about $160. it can be bought from here
I use it mostly for pressure prediction as in above scenarios. Vendor load data has been written by lawyers, so this program is useful when you try new powders new loads or when you want to go over the limit.

mgvande 09-19-2017 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariu (Post 3625588)
I paid about $160. it can be bought from here
I use it mostly for pressure prediction as in above scenarios. Vendor load data has been written by lawyers, so this program is useful when you try new powders new loads or when you want to go over the limit.

Cool thanks

lclund1946 09-20-2017 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firegod74 (Post 3625042)
Hi guys, I'm new to reloading myself, but I have assisted others so I'm familiar with the process.
I'm trying to work up a load for my 300wsm shooting Berger 168 Hunting VLD's and RL17 powder. I looked through some other forums and found a recipe a guy loves. He is loading 67.5 grains of RL17 and getting velocities of 3128ft/sec. This seems like a lot of powder for me based on tables I've seen in the past, so I went to Berger directly and asked them.
They sent me a table showing a min/max of 60/63 grains respectively, and a max speed of 3071.
Do you guys think Berger publishes low numbers for the sake of liability, or is this guy on the verge of producing hot loads that may lead to damage.
I'm not looking to shoot from mountain to mountain, I just want to kill a moose or deer in the regular 100-300 range, while using up the bergers I already have.
Thanks in advance.

Aliant do not have load data in their online Manual for the Berger 168 Hunting VLD's. It is most likely that the guy is pushing pressures to the max which is pretty high in the WSM case, I believe 65000PSI. In any event your brass will last much longer if you find a load in the 3000- 3050 range and the deer or moose won't know the difference.

I have been finding that case capacity and hardness of the brass can vary a lot from brand to brand and even lot to lot. I believe that there was a thread on this a while back. I have done extensive testing with a number of 223 brass converted to 20-223 Extreme and found this can lead nearly 100 fps difference in velocity with the same load in a hard case, with less capacity, compared to a softer one with greater capacity.

I have been working on finding a load for a friends 270 with IMR 7977 and the 150 Nosler LRAB. The first thing I learned was that I could not get within 0.200" of the lands at 3.440" OAL which over the Saami Max of 3.340". Hornady show a Max load of 60.8 C doing 2940 fps with Winchester Brass but I only had one brass and a whole lot of FC brass which only held 58.1 grains under the bullet and a compressed load at 58.7 grains got a dismal 2747 fps. I filled the Winchester brass with 58.7 grains and got 2748 fps so decided to find some Winchester brass and run with the compressed load.

A friend gave me a pile of once fired brass and we also had some Hornady and Nosler factory rounds. What I noticed right off was that the new brass measured about 0.465" or less at the base and that none of the brass came close to fireforming to the Saami Max Cartridge measurement of 0.4698" or Saami Min Chamber dimension of 0.4708". In fact the Hornady brass measured only 0.468" in spite of the primers flowing 0.003". Based on this and the fact that the RCBS FL die sized the base datum to 0.4686" I determined that I would consider a fired base datum of 0.4696" to be MAX Pressure with the FL sized Brass.

I compiled a spreadsheet showing brass weights, capacities, velocities and base measurements. I used Ramshot X-Terminator to measure capacities as it flows and weighs nearly the same as water. It has been a real eye opener to me especially in regard to fireforming brass which would take much more than the 61,000 PSI that these 2900 fps loads are generating.

[IMG]http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/a...psmblszf8s.jpg[/IMG]

lclund1946 09-20-2017 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lclund1946 (Post 3626172)
Aliant do not have load data in their online Manual for the Berger 168 Hunting VLD's. It is most likely that the guy is pushing pressures to the max which is pretty high in the WSM case, I believe 65000PSI. In any event your brass will last much longer if you find a load in the 3000- 3050 range and the deer or moose won't know the difference.

I have been finding that case capacity and hardness of the brass can vary a lot from brand to brand and even lot to lot. I believe that there was a thread on this a while back. I have done extensive testing with a number of 223 brass converted to 20-223 Extreme and found this can lead nearly 100 fps difference in velocity with the same load in a hard case, with less capacity, compared to a softer one with greater capacity.

I have been working on finding a load for a friends 270 with IMR 7977 and the 150 Nosler LRAB. The first thing I learned was that I could not get within 0.200" of the lands at 3.440" OAL which over the Saami Max of 3.340". Hornady show a Max load of 60.8 C doing 2940 fps with Winchester Brass but I only had one brass and a whole lot of FC brass which only held 58.1 grains under the bullet and a compressed load at 58.7 grains got a dismal 2747 fps. I filled the Winchester brass with 58.7 grains and got 2748 fps so decided to find some Winchester brass and run with the compressed load.

A friend gave me a pile of once fired brass and we also had some Hornady and Nosler factory rounds. What I noticed right off was that the new brass measured about 0.465" or less at the base and that none of the brass came close to fireforming to the Saami Max Cartridge measurement of 0.4698" or Saami Min Chamber dimension of 0.4708". In fact the Hornady brass measured only 0.468" in spite of the primers flowing 0.003". Based on this and the fact that the RCBS FL die sized the base datum to 0.4686" I determined that I would consider a fired base datum of 0.4696" to be MAX Pressure with the FL sized Brass.

I compiled a spreadsheet showing brass weights, capacities, velocities and base measurements. I used Ramshot X-Terminator to measure capacities as it flows and weighs nearly the same as water. It has been a real eye opener to me especially in regard to fireforming brass which would take much more than the 61,000 PSI that these 2900 fps loads are generating.

[IMG]http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/a...psmblszf8s.jpg[/IMG]

I see that I missed the weight of the Hornady brass which was the lightest at 180.0 grains. It had nearly 3 grains more capacity than the FC and Nosler brass and was likely the hardest of the brass tested. I picked it over the Winchester brass as I did not have to compress the load of IMR 7977 required to reach my goal of 2900 fps.


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