125gr .308 win / Caribou
 

Hi yall, I was wondering if anyone has experience using 125gr load in .308 for caribou or deer hunting. Ive tried various loads from 125-168 and the rifle is very inaccurate(2-3) moa with anything but 125s.(.5-.75 moa). The rifle is a mossberg patriot youth. Do you think sierra or nosler 125s @3,000 would be a good carib load. Ive so considered the 125 TSX. What are your opinions??
Thanks!!!

I can't offer any help as I have never seen a 308 that was more accurate with Shorter ( lighter ) Bullets than longer ( heavier ) ones unless it was a 1:14 twist barrel then the 155's were more accurate than 175's for example .
I have never used the 100-115 grain bullets except for short rangd partridge loads and would never consider a lighter bullet for hunting in the 308
Cat

Caribou
 

What kind of Caribou?
You can kill anything with anything with the right placement, but for me bullets below 140 are getting light for Bou. You might want to try 168 weight bullets, your rifle may be looking for a heavier bullet to stabalize.

may be looking for a heavier bullet to stabalize
 

I would have selected a larger bullet if i could get the accuracy out of it.

If it won't shoot anything but 125s send it back to Mossberg and get them to fix the gun. There is something wrong with it. I would never limit my self to bullet choice in that way. All in however I have killed a ton of game with a 308 using 130 grain TSX, yotes to Moose and Bear, so no reason the 125 won't work on Caribou. Smaller than most deer and not hard to kill.

.5-.75 in accuracy is not needed. Don't over think things if a 150-180 bullet of decent design gives 1-1.5 moa your good to hunt caribou. Unless your going to shoot past 300 yds in which case your 125s rant great choice anyways. You don't always have to have .5 groups for a hunting rifle nor do you always have to use the most accurate built your rifle shoots. I'd rather have a 165 partition at 1.5 moa than a Sierra 125 gr at .5 moa for a hunting bullet. If your 308 is spraying 150-180 bullets there's something suspect about the gun. JMO

I guess I should have stated " unless it was a Barnes" when j said j would nog hunt with a light bullet like a 125 in the 308.
But even then if it will not stabilize a 140-150 grain cup and core if may not be able to handle s Barned because of the length of the bullet
I would be getting the gun checked out personally , if a 308 will not shoot a 150 grain bullet there is something amiss .
Cat

accuracy
 

^^
This.
Everyone is so obsessed with MOA accuracy. Sure, today's guns should be able to provide it, but look at how many game animals were taken with the old .303 and 30-30 guns with open sights. Know your limitations and how your gun shoots and go for it, but dont go under-gunned with poor ammunition.

Well-said

I mean no disrespect but If you are hand loading you are doing it WRONG!
I cannot bellieve that you can't use whatever powder you are using with a mid range charge, seat a 150 bullet to the cannelure and not make that 308 shoot as well as a 125!:thinking-006:
Cat

Cat is right. The twist on that rifle is 1:10 and should have no problem shooting 150's, 165's, etc. I know both of my .308's prefer the 165's. I would sell the gun if you can't get a 165 to group 1 MOA.

Me thinks the issue lies with the preverbal “jerk”:scared0015: Behind the trigger.....you can’t take the recoil as good as you think or wish you can.

To that end, has anybody else who’s an accomplished shooter tried the supposedly “lousy” shooting heavier bullets?

Huh
 

Not sure where you’ve hunted Caribou or deer, but the 3 species of caribou ive hunted were not smaller that deer, significantly larger in every aspesct.
But your correct on not being a very tough animal to kill.

All the Boo I shot have been in the NWT, north of Yellowknife and up on the Copper River. Big mule deer or WT here in Alberta go 250 -300 on the hoof. Outside of a real big bull, most of the Caribou were maybe 180-250 on the hoof. The locals used 223 most of the time.

What bullets have you tried? Were the heavier bullets all mono metal?

If the rifle is accurate with light bullets, it's telling me that the mechanical accuracy is there, but the gun might be very picky. Back to the bench and work up some different loads.

You could use a properly constructed light bullet, but in my opinion, they underutilize the cartridge. Started out faster, the combination of lower BC and high speed drag (squared by velocity), plus lower SD work together to make an OK short range bullet, if a bit lower momentum. But the narrow (high) velocity range and fast loss of velocity work against performance at longer range.

I get get really tired of people parroting stuff they read on the Internet that is just plain friggin WRONG. If you don't know what you are talking about don't post.

308

130 Grain TSX BT B.C. .340 S.D. .196 MV 3100 FPS, 300 yards 2252 FPS 500 1811 FPS

This MV can be attained with 6 IMR/Hodgdon powders and in fact with certain powders you can get to 3200 FPS according to Hodgdon load data, and my personal experience.

165 Grain TSX BT B.C. ..380 S.D. .248 MV 2839 FPS 300 yards 2133 FPS 500 1726 FPS

This a a max load, only doable with one IMR/Hodgdon powder listed load.

Even at 500 yards the 130 grain bullet has an 85 FPS advantage over the 165 grain bullet in the same TSX BT configuration. He is at no disadvantage whatsoever shooting 130 grain bullets to 500 yards. Not many guys are shooting Caribou farther out than that with a Mossberg hunting rifle.

Not wrong, and your post just shows it. Many people buy into the increased velocity as a big advantage, but as your listed data shows, the gap in fps is closed, and will eventually be eclipsed at very long range. Not advocating extreme range shots, but the 165 gr. starts with more momentum if not FPE (which is a somewhat silly measurement, at times) and ends up with more at 500 yards. 982 vs. 1136, or about 86% Or measured by kg-m/s it's 33 vs. 40 or 82.5%. Would be a wider gap if you compare a shorter cup and core.

Whether you think there is an advantage is somewhat immaterial, and 20% is a real, measureable difference.

What is the velocity range of the TSX? Has to be getting close to the lower end at 500, I'd guess. What's the lowest impact speed you estimate you've hit with?

Muzzle Energy was a fad perpetuated by a number of gun writers. It has since been proven many times that it has no bearing on how effective a bullet kills. Many continue to perpetuate it as some form of measure of killing power but it isn't. If it did, nothing shot with a Round Ball out of a Muzzle loader would have ever died, nor anything stabbed with a spear or sword.

What kills is the hole. As long as the bullet penetrates, causes damage in the right area and leads to sufficient bleeding and or damage to vital organs and nerve centres, that is what kills game. Whether this is accomplished by a spear, arrow, round ball or a 200 grain bullet doing 3000 fps is immaterial.

The only reason you want to keep a Barnes above a certain speed is to ensure adequate expansion so it makes a BIGGER HOLE. A .308 200 grain FMJ has far more muzzle energy than a .308 130 grain cup and core, but it will generally not kill as quickly or effectively because it makes a smaller HOLE.

I have shot Elk at 600 yards with the 130 grain Barnes. I got penetration to the offside hide and good expansion on the bullet. I would consider 1600 FPS to be the min velocity to ensure adequate expansion, unless you hit heavy bone where expansion does increase, from what I have seen.

I have shot a pile of game with 125gr bullets flung from a 308. No complaints here.

Dean your leaving 200 FPS on the table. Barnes has that bullet pushing 3300 FPS in their manual.

I load the 130 ttsx in my 30-06 and send it at a bit over 3300 FPS. The biggest thing I’ve shot with it was a moose at about 150 yards. It broke the onside shoulder, left a fist sized hole through the lungs and went out the far side. I never found any of the bullet but it did the job and the moose went straight down.

Guys the OP was asking about Seirra and Nosler 125's not Barnes, but if I was going to go light like that it would be with a Barnes bullet
Cat

This is the fourth Mossberg patriot now that I've heard of having the same issue.
My father has one, he has no shortage of cash so he has tried every factory load available in BC. 168s might put up a group of 8-10" with 125s he's getting groups 1.25"

I hate to say it but these patriots may be victims of Mossberg historical build quality.

If you get a good load, could you share it, I'll forward on to my father to try. Thank you

I agree, I was trying to to keep the 130 conservative, and I am also aware that Barnes shows the 165 TSX at a max 2830 like Hodgdon. I actually shoot my 130s at 3200 fps and there is no pressure signs at all. Bumping the 130 TSX to 3300 would make the comparison even more stark but even with a very conservative 3100 fps the point is easily made.

Jayhad

I agree about the Mossberg build quality. I suggested to the OP in my first post that he send the gun back as there is something wrong with it. I too have heard of many of the Mossbergs, not just in 308, that would not should heavier bullets well. These are not a quality built gun and even in their price range there are a bunch of better built guns, but the OP may be stuck with what he has so the best we can do is try to help out as much as possible.

I don't know if we'll agree on a theoretical "best" bullet, but somewhat surprisingly, to me at least; we seem to agree on everything else.

Heck of a good post.

Good info; thanks. The numbers I seem to have read before was about 1800, then recently read 2000 for a margin of safety. Surprised that they open as low as 1600, but I won't argue with real world performance.

Not a .308 but .30-06 with 125gr. Nosler Bt Used it on a doe antelope years ago, neck shot, worked very well. She went down so fast I thought I missed. BUT I am more in the camp of heavy for caliber bullets. I think the .308 is in its sweet spot right around 165 grs. I tend to find that mono bullets tend to copper more and I don't get the best accuracy from my rifles..and they are more finicky about powder primers etc. Also I think if velocities are not up near the top, failure to expand is another issue. I tend to like cup and core bullets, H frames, or the more modern bonded bullets..simply because they have worked for me and they cost 1/2 what the "super" bullets cost.... M2cents..... Take it for what it is worth..your mileage may differ.