Trap Creek NO TRESPASSING Signs
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Hello. I just returned from a drive on Highway 40 west of Longview and noticed 3 new no trespassing signs on Trap Creek. These large signs threaten to prosecute you if you trespass. They even say all books and websites are invalid so you cannot access the creek via the owners adjacent land. He even boarded up the gate with a smaller sign so there is no more access.
What a shame. Such a nice area to hike and catch and release some small Cutthroats. Soon there will be nowhere to fish except on public lands. What are your thoughts? |
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Would be nice if there was a push to open some of those roads back up that access this part of k-country. They have all become private access points to crown land. |
I have seen the mess left behind at fishing spots.
I get it. I wouldn't want to spending my free time cleaning up after people either. |
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This road is a good access point to quite a bit of hunting territory to, sucks if they aren’t allowing foot / bike access anymore. There is another road just north that is also blocked off by private land , similar situation. |
I am defiant with land owners that block stream access, but only when they are blocking legal access, this doesn't appear to be the case.
You could walk in, in the creek below the high water mark. If people were cutting through my property to get to water I'd be choked as well. |
:waiting4:Any dip**** could have posted those signs. Even one of you.
If it doesn't have the name of the leaseholder/landowner and a means of contacting them, then it has no validity as far as I am concerned. |
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People just have had enough I guess with the crap people leave behind...only takes a few slobs to wreck it for all others.
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Them signs have been there for a few years now. Why don’t you grow a pair and go ask Depaoli if they don’t mind you using the road to access the Crown lease that you need to go through to go fishing. There’s a few different lease holders you need to contact before you access Trapp creek. People that go biking and fishing in there without knowledge of who’s lease they are on and not contacting prior is one reason it is so difficult to get in there.
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Well it sucks, but they are allowed to refuse access to their land. However, as mentioned in another post, if you can access the stream at the bridge and stay within the high water mark you will be fully within your legal rights.
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Contact the landowner. As my name suggests, I've fished everything in that area many times. Use respect, be nice, worse case you are denied access. There is plenty of water in that area far superior to Trap Creek.
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I just met a rancher this week. The stories he told of trespassers was unreal. Funny thing, he is an outdoors man and hunter. If the trespassers would have knocked on his door first and asked, most would be hunting his land and with his help. |
We have asked the landowner (Depaoli) for permission to access Trap Creek last year and 2017 and both times he said nobody is allowed on his land. So we simply fished elsewhere.
It appears that if you want to hike or fish there you will have to walk up the creek within it's high water marks until you get to the lease road. It would be smart to find out who the leaseholders are and contact them to make sure you are allowed to access and use the road. It's disappointing to see reduced access but there are better places to hike, bike or fish in that area. |
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The stories I have... I've confronted I'm sure close to a thousand different people over the years. I have a database of the trouble ones I keep. One of the worst that comes to back to me, cop that showed up had to pull his gun out as this guy would just not settle down and was yelling at the cop, he was cuffed and hauled away. All in front of his two kids. What a "hero" to look up to hey. Most end up as they should with a better understanding on the other party. But some don't get it. |
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They are sick of fly fisherman and hunters who are pigs. I was just picking up garbage in the ditches at the east hillcrest bridge in the pass. Pig fly fishers. Beer cans galore.....Parking in driveways???and then going fishing??? Absolutely no surprise access is getting to zero. Just wondering why it is taking so long?
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If a peace officer attends, they would assess whether any provincial law has been breached. If proceedings are under the " Trespass to Premises Act," RSA 2000, c-T-7, then NOTICE is always required. Trespass 2(1) No person shall trespass on premises with respect to which that person has had notice not to trespass. (2) For the purposes of subsection (1), notice not to trespass may be given to a person (a) orally or in writing by the owner or an authorized representative of the owner, or (b) by signs visibly displayed (i) at each of the entrances normally used by persons to enter the premises, and (ii) in the case of premises referred to in section 1(c)(ii), at all fence corners or, if there is no fence, at each corner of the premises. There is another act called the Petty Trespass Act, RSA c-P11, which also requires NOTICE except for certain instances defined in subsection 2(2), mainly cultivated farmlands and/or that are fully enclosed. However, there are also public use easements to consider for accessing streams and rivers. Further, parts of that act have been found unconstitutional and it is rarely used anymore. The law surrounding property and water rights in AB is complex, as there are multiple acts (Surface Rights, Water Rights, Indigenous treaties, etc) which deal with specific issues and are open to judicial interpretation. In any event, in each case under the Petty Trespass Act, the question as to whether a parcel of land is " fully enclosed" or "under cultivation" is a finding of fact for each judge in each case. If the judge finds the land does not fit within subsection 2(2) then they must give the public adequate notice, ordinarily in the form of proper signage. Further, whether the land is "deeded" is irrelevant for the purposes of both the Petty Trespass Act and Trespass to Premises Act. The only requirement is to be the owner or lawful occupier. The only exception being Crown Land, whether trained or leased or permitted, etc. The Petty Trespass Act does not apply to Crown land. There is a tremendous amount of misinformation floating around about these matters. Always has been in my experience. Most lawyers do not even know these laws very well. Note: I often see or hear of people referring to some form of special deeded land where the owner retains rights to stream beds. Those are exceedingly rare and only arise from former Hudson Bay Company land. I know that claims made by persons relating to areas on Jumpingpound and Dogpound have been investigated at Land Titles and in both instances the landowners were wrong. If one really wanted to fish there, they could get a copy of the title to pack along and use it to settle any dispute when a peace officer arrives. That said, if some nutcase assaults you or kills you, I'm not sure being in the right legally will be much consolation. Further note: always clean up after yourselves on public or PRI vote land. "Leave no trace" should be standard operating procedure. Also, seek to obtain permission wherever any issue could arise. Most landowners are fine with it if you are respectful. They only want to keep out the *******s who litter and tear up their land. |
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If you really want to know, pay a visit to the Land Titles Office and check it out. Only land in sections 8 and 26 (3/4 of, unless it's the NE corner) of townships is former HBC land, which is the only land in AB where this is applicable. |
I have pulled their land title, And NO THEY [Copithorn's] DON'T at least in this particular section of the JP)!! I don't fishing there any more as there are better places to fish on the JP. If I were to fish there, I would definitely bring their title and tell them to get bent and call the RCMP!
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What I've always asked the RCMP is a call to the owner to let them know. That is, when I have a license#. That one call is usually enough and gets the point across. Looks like you are of the same attitude as others on here, which is great. Thanks. The other thing myself and neighbours did that was helpful was call the county enforcement, MLA and RCMP for several meetings to discuss the problem. We also brought the RCMP onto the land so they could see where misuse was occurring and where people would park, etc. We get regular weekly patrols now from RCMP when they have the time. But they haven't missed a week in a couple of years now. They catch quite a few I don't know about which is great. The "database" I keep is track those that return after a warning. Those are the ones that RCMP has charged pretty much 100%. I have great neighbors too! :) |
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When dealing with property owners you always have to keep in mind they are the ones doing you the favor if they allow you on their land. So you got to look out for it and try and leave it as good or better than when you arrived. Pick up garbage. Let them know if you spot a hole in a fence or predators near their livestock, etc. Park where they tell you. Tread lightly. Anyways, where do you live SNAPfisher so I can come over and fish? Lol. Cheers. |
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