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-   -   AB walleye tourneys (http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=346259)

MooseRiverTrapper 06-11-2018 02:28 PM

AB walleye tourneys
 
I heard possibly the tournaments are going to total length instead of total weight? Don’t need to get into a debate. Just curious, want to enter. Don’t have a livewell.

calgarygringo 06-11-2018 03:21 PM

Measure take appropriate rules pic on tourney supplied memory card and back they go down south.

New changes for measuring and scoring fish

PRE-FISHING: Pre-fishing hours are from half an hour prior to sunrise until 1:00 pm sharp the Thursday prior to the tournament. No pre-fishing can occur from Monday through to Wednesday prior to each tournament.


MEASURING FISH: Only Walleye, Sauger and Saugeye are eligible for measuring. All fish will be measured in millimeters (mm) and translated to a pound (lb.) measurement for the purpose of calculating heaviest fish and total weight of all fish entered. All measuring boards will be provided by SAWT and one will be given to each team during boat inspection along with all other necessary paperwork


PHOTO PICTURES: All fish are to be measured with the left side of the fish facing up (belly towards the angler). The full fish must be visible in the entire picture. Measured fish can be 45cm or larger when measured with their mouths closed and tails fully pinched. In the event a photo designates a fish to be scored is judged by SAWT to be unscorable, a replacement fish will not be allowed. Any fish that appears to have been mangled, mashed, mauled, or otherwise altered will be credited only at the discretion of SAWT officials and may result in team disqualification for the day or the event.


SCORING PHOTOS: While the fish is being held on the ruler, a "SCORING" photo must be taken of the fish which clearly shows the overall length of the fish. The HEAD and TAIL of the fish must be included and shown clearly. The photograph must be taken of the left side of the fish only. A photo that does not show the list of qualifications above WILL NOT BE SCORED. More than one attempt to get a valid scoring photo is allowed. The fish must then be immediately released back into the water.

CATCH-PICTURE-RELEASE: In the instance when two or more fish are caught at the same time, the Catch-Picture-Release process requires that one fish be measured, photographed, and released as quickly as possible before the next fish can be processed.


SUBMITTING PHOTOS: A maximum of 4 pictures can be on each teams SD card, each of different fish, and one card is submitted per team per day. A team can take multiple pictures of fish but must delete all pictures except the ones the team would like to submit for measuring at the end of the day. It is the responsibility of each team to carefully review all pictures and ensure no duplicates are submitted. *Any duplication of fish will automatically receive a weight of zero and the team may be disqualified at the discretion of the board.* ABSOLUTELY no video editing devices are allowed on any boat at any time. All boards and SD cards are to be submitted immediately after coming off of the water.




CELL PHONES, IPHONES, IPADS ARE NOT TO BE USED TO TAKE PICTUES WITH. YOU MUST USE A CAMERA WITH AN SD CARD WHICH IS TO BE SUPPLIED BY THE PARTICIPANTS OF THE TOURNAMENT.











Quote:

Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper (Post 3797390)
I heard possibly the tournaments are going to total length instead of total weight? Don’t need to get into a debate. Just curious, want to enter. Don’t have a livewell.


700 06-11-2018 03:45 PM

S.a.w.t
 
Love the new rules.. taking pictures is really easy,you spend more time fishing and don't loose you spot when the bite is on, and it's way better for the fish.

MooseRiverTrapper 06-11-2018 04:03 PM

As of when for northern ab tourneys?

bobalong 06-11-2018 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper (Post 3797438)
As of when for northern ab tourneys?

The northern trail looked at measure tournaments quite a few years ago but decided against it. With the cheap editing equipment available it was felt that cheating would be almost impossible to stop.

That was about 10 years ago and I have not been involved with the northern trail for a few years now so things may change.

pikergolf 06-11-2018 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobalong (Post 3797443)
The northern trail looked at measure tournaments quite a few years ago but decided against it. With the cheap editing equipment available it was felt that cheating would be almost impossible to stop.

That was about 10 years ago and I have not been involved with the northern trail for a few years now so things may change.

Pretty pathetic when you have to worry about cheating in a fishing contest.

bobalong 06-11-2018 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pikergolf (Post 3797446)
Pretty pathetic when you have to worry about cheating in a fishing contest.

Pathetic is right but cheating can happen in any type of competition, and when the prize money gets in the 25K-50K, range it probably happens more.

pikergolf 06-11-2018 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobalong (Post 3797460)
Pathetic is right but cheating can happen in any type of competition, and when the prize money gets in the 25K-50K, range it probably happens more.

Sad to see our resources reduced to a contest.

Walleyedude 06-11-2018 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pikergolf (Post 3797498)
Sad to see our resources reduced to a contest.

Then keep your eyes closed while you’re sitting on your high horse...

pikergolf 06-11-2018 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walleyedude (Post 3797546)
Then keep your eyes closed while you’re sitting on your high horse...

I try. You must be an all star?

Walleyedude 06-11-2018 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pikergolf (Post 3797547)
I try. You must be an all star?

Not in the least, and I certainly don’t claim that my opinion is somehow more valid than others.

I just try to keep an open mind and respect how my fellow outdoorsmen choose to enjoy the outdoors and our resources.

pikergolf 06-11-2018 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walleyedude (Post 3797550)
Not in the least, and I certainly don’t claim that my opinion is somehow more valid than others.

I just try to keep an open mind and respect how my fellow outdoorsmen choose to enjoy the outdoors and our resources.

You're being modest.

RavYak 06-11-2018 08:02 PM

Almost all kayak tournaments are CPR (catch, photo, release). Some of them are getting pretty crazy too, this year there was a tournament in the states with a 100k top prize.

With designated measuring boards and/or event tokens much of the cheating aspect is removed. Still get the odd guys that try something tricky but just like weight tournaments the cheaters eventually get caught, then give them a lifetime ban and problem solved...

I would love for the walleye tournaments to go to CPR. If I could compete against guys in big boats out of my kayak if I would consider giving it a try. Interesting to know that the south tournaments have already done this, I will have to look into the new rules and see if it would be possible.

muzzy 06-12-2018 12:14 PM

I like this concept great for the fish and gives all us guys who dont have the large expensive boats with livewells a chance to enter a tournament

Willowtrail 06-12-2018 02:56 PM

I dont like the photo and release. It takes a lot of the fun out of the game. We have to weigh in with only 2 out of our 4 fish. A decision has to be made on the boat of when to weigh in your first 2 fish and get back out to get 2 more. It’s all a part of the game.

panko 06-12-2018 03:08 PM

Pics
 
I’ve fished these tourneys for 25 years the new picture format is awesome
There’s way more fishing time.
Not chasing weigh boats
Anybody can do it from 12’ aluminium to wake board boats,no need for live well
Burning less gas.
Nobody else knows your catching
I for one don’t want to go back to weigh boats

Jamie Black R/T 06-12-2018 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobalong (Post 3797460)
Pathetic is right but cheating can happen in any type of competition, and when the prize money gets in the 25K-50K, range it probably happens more.

all the northern tourneys are a 1000+ buy in now with some great payouts.

Keep the selfie tourneys for guys just getting started that cant afford these buy ins.

Theres room for both IMO....but its gonna be tough to reduce the golden walleye classic to a photo contest no doubt...too much on the line now.

give me that sd card and a laptop with photoshop 7 from 1998....i can add 4 lbs to each fish and nobody would be able to tell different.

with mobile hotspots you could even email them off for altering while you keep fishing. Its impossible to enforce.

YES its pathetic to think guys would go to these lengths to cheat...but when 50k is on the line you bet its gonna happen.

RavYak 06-12-2018 10:08 PM

And there arent already slimeballs that cheat in these weigh in tournaments hiding fish somewhere etc? Cheaters will always cheat no matter which way it is set up. As mentioned before cheaters in cpr tournaments still get caught, I have seen it a number of times.

All tournaments should be Cpr imo, I dont get how you tournament guys get away with literally breaking the law (every fish that enters livewell is considered retained). They wont even let us take photos of non retainable fish in our kayak tournaments and expect us to only have photos up to legal limit... Ridiculous double standards by Aep in that regard.

bobalong 06-12-2018 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavYak (Post 3798098)
And there arent already slimeballs that cheat in these weigh in tournaments hiding fish somewhere etc? Cheaters will always cheat no matter which way it is set up. As mentioned before cheaters in cpr tournaments still get caught, I have seen it a number of times.

All tournaments should be Cpr imo, I dont get how you tournament guys get away with literally breaking the law (every fish that enters livewell is considered retained). They wont even let us take photos of non retainable fish in our kayak tournaments and expect us to only have photos up to legal limit... Ridiculous double standards by Aep in that regard.

So now tournament anglers are breaking the law. There are lots of things you never seem to get, all the while making sure you trash people and rules you know nothing about...... you just never change do you.

MooseRiverTrapper 06-12-2018 11:14 PM

I was planning on tucking a big pickerel in my pants.

mooseknuckle 06-12-2018 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavYak (Post 3798098)
And there arent already slimeballs that cheat in these weigh in tournaments hiding fish somewhere etc? Cheaters will always cheat no matter which way it is set up. As mentioned before cheaters in cpr tournaments still get caught, I have seen it a number of times.

All tournaments should be Cpr imo, I dont get how you tournament guys get away with literally breaking the law (every fish that enters livewell is considered retained). They wont even let us take photos of non retainable fish in our kayak tournaments and expect us to only have photos up to legal limit... Ridiculous double standards by Aep in that regard.

Youve seen it a number of times? A number of times? Really? Provide us with some examples please. Oh and thanks for calling me and my fellow tournament anglers criminals. Real classy of you.

Freedom55 06-13-2018 07:24 AM

7 years on the WCWT
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RavYak (Post 3798098)
And there arent already slimeballs that cheat in these weigh in tournaments hiding fish somewhere etc? Cheaters will always cheat no matter which way it is set up. As mentioned before cheaters in cpr tournaments still get caught, I have seen it a number of times.

All tournaments should be Cpr imo, I dont get how you tournament guys get away with literally breaking the law (every fish that enters livewell is considered retained). They wont even let us take photos of non retainable fish in our kayak tournaments and expect us to only have photos up to legal limit... Ridiculous double standards by Aep in that regard.

Perhaps our resident expert on all things fishing can cite specific examples on how it is possible to cheat in a controlled environment. Further: could he provide details regarding specific examples that he is personally familiar with of cheaters? Or maybe some "hearsay" evidence to back up his assertions?

As to the ridiculous assumption that tournament anglers are breaking the laws by retaining fish; there is an agreement with the province and signed by the participants that allows retention of 2 fish per boat in the well. That is one fish per angler and well within the legal definition of "limits."

Cite your sources Tyler.

Free

RavYak 06-13-2018 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mooseknuckle (Post 3798133)
Youve seen it a number of times? A number of times? Really? Provide us with some examples please. Oh and thanks for calling me and my fellow tournament anglers criminals. Real classy of you.

I have seen people use expandable bump boards and not have them expanded properly.

Guys have altered dates on camera and used pictures from other days.

Heard one guy cut a fishes tail off and was sliding it under a fish and then covering seam with hand to try and gain extra length.

People take multiple pictures of the same fish, flip it to other side and pinch tail or not pinch tail to make it hard to tell it is a different fish.

That is why in most tournaments especially higher end ones there are requirements to use fixed length, tournament specified measuring boards. Tokens to prove the fish was caught on that day. Meta data checked to see if photo data is correct/modified. Fish to be facing left with fins away from angler etc. All these things make it much more difficult to cheat at CPR.

You walleye tournament anglers are just doing what you are allowed to do. I am saying that there is a huge double standard by AEP in allowing it in your rules and that the way the laws are written you aren't supposed to have that many fish in your livewell. Especially on lakes like Pinehurst where theoretically you aren't allowed to put a fish in your livewell unless you have tags and it is tagged... I have been wanting to have kayak tournaments on tag lakes or be able to count 2 fish on lakes where limit is only 1 and AEP won't let us even though all we do is take the fish out of the water for 5 seconds for a quick picture then release it... Like I say big double standard and AEP should be treating this stuff equally not giving some anglers/tournaments preferential treatment.

RavYak 06-13-2018 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freedom55 (Post 3798175)
Perhaps our resident expert on all things fishing can cite specific examples on how it is possible to cheat in a controlled environment. Further: could he provide details regarding specific examples that he is personally familiar with of cheaters? Or maybe some "hearsay" evidence to back up his assertions?

As to the ridiculous assumption that tournament anglers are breaking the laws by retaining fish; there is an agreement with the province and signed by the participants that allows retention of 2 fish per boat in the well. That is one fish per angler and well within the legal definition of "limits."

Cite your sources Tyler.

Free

There are plenty of examples of people cheating in weigh in tournaments online... I don't follow the walleye tournaments closely enough to know when the last time it happened here was though. Obviously it does happen or used to happen hence why you guys are worried about switching to CPR...

Again it is the double standard that is frustrating. I understand that somehow you guys get an allowance while others can't...

Kurt505 06-13-2018 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper (Post 3798123)
I was planning on tucking a big pickerel in my pants.

Wow...... that made my day :sHa_shakeshout:

Freedom55 06-13-2018 09:56 AM

I like 'em both
 
I entered a boat in a c/p/r tournament last fall. There was a number of teams entered that routinely compete in the larger pay-out tournaments. Let me describe their process.

1) A measuring stick was supplied by the officials and returned afterward at risk of cash penalty for a lost board.
2) A symbol was drawn randomly from a deck of cards moments before the start and applied to the board e.g. the 8 of spades. This symbol must appear in the photographs affixed to the bump board.
3) each fish is photographed twice, once on the board in the proscribed manner and once in a "hero" shot, to a total of 5 fish entered. All non-entered photos to be deleted.
4) Total length only; to properly calculate weight by measurement a girth measurement is required and there is some wiggle room in that regard so weights were not considered.
5) Barbless hooks only.
6) Live wells inspected prior to departure

These events are self-policed. Random spot checks are conducted if there are enough officials but no one wants a competitor to gain an unfair advantage so reporting infractions can and do occur.

In my time and to my knowledge there has been only one incident of a cheat in action. An American boat entered in the Vanity Cup - $250k prize money - was found to have a monster walleye in a live well prior to departure. That boat was DQ'd and banned. Or so the story goes. I personally witnessed a boat jettisoning a dead fish on the second day at the Premier's Cup when upgrading that was on the leader board after day 1. After day 2 that boat was DQ'd and 0 weight shown. Many people saw that dead fish go over the rail apparently. There have been accusations of fizzing but no conclusive proof has been entered on the record to my knowledge. That said, we were once given a fizz kit at the rules meeting at the Kenora Walleye Open.

If you are drawing examples from U.S. tournaments you would do well to remember that this is Canada, a much smaller market and populated by teams that value their reputations. Cheats and scallywags are soon outed. Then there are the guys who bring Alberta leeches into SK. or zebra mussels from Manitoba.

The change to CPR is an effort to lower the mortality rate. It is not to curb boorish behaviour.

Free (btw- there are 18 open spots in the 2018 Lac des Isle Walleye Classic. Check their Facebook page for details)

EZM 06-13-2018 10:29 AM

I saw this comment a number of times - relating to tournament anglers breaking the law - as the "in the live well quantity of fish" or "untagged fish" does not coincide with the general sport fishing regulations and as they relate to that lake.

So - to be clear ........

1) Every tournament is licenced by the province in which it is held.

2) In cases where the tournament format would result in a law being broken - the province issues "a suspension and amendment" to the pertaining laws for the period of the tournament - in other words - they allow the tournament contestants an exemption (or exception) for that period.

Tournaments themselves don't break laws - Tournament anglers aren't breaking any laws participating under the regulations and amendments issued for that tournament either.

Jamie Black R/T 06-13-2018 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobalong (Post 3798116)
So now tournament anglers are breaking the law. There are lots of things you never seem to get, all the while making sure you trash people and rules you know nothing about...... you just never change do you.

Must be getting old Bob if you cant remember back when you knew everything lol

RavYak 06-13-2018 07:17 PM

Now that I am home I can see how I poorly worded my first comment regarding breaking the law and understand why you guys had issue with it as it did not convey my point very well, joys of using phone on the go...

For some further clarification.

AEP does not let kayak fishing tournaments count double the legal limit on lakes nor hold tournaments on tag lakes. This even though we use the CPR system and most of our tournaments range from 20-60 guys. The effect on the fish populations by our tournaments are minuscule.

The walleye tournaments are allowed to count more fish then their limit and even hold one tournament at a tag lake. This requires government allowances so anglers can do what would normally be considered an illegal act(see below for details). With ~ 100 teams carrying 4+ walleye in their livewell per day these walleye tournaments without a doubt have a much more significant effect on populations then our tournaments do yet they see less stringent requirements.

As was supposed to be my point, I think the walleye tournaments should be CPR or AEP should at least get rid of the double standards and offer similar tournament allowances to other groups. Better yet they should loosen up their requirements for all tournaments including the walleye tournaments. Many of our tag lakes and C&R lakes are the healthiest lakes in AB and it would make much more sense to hold tournaments at these lakes rather than forcing us to hold tournaments at lakes that do not have healthy populations just because they have open regulations...

For clarification regarding the laws that I have referenced.

From the Alberta Fishing Regulations(act not summary)

Quote:

(4) For the purposes of these Regulations, a fish is considered to be retained when it is not immediately returned to the waters from which it was taken.
And from the summary

Quote:

Fish kept on a stringer or a live well are considered retained and are part of your limit.
Schedule A of the competitive fishing event license must have an allowance for this in these walleye tournaments. My frustration is why only walleye tournaments are given this privilege. My frustration is not with walleye tournament anglers, it is with AEP. As I mentioned in my first post I would actually be interested in competing in these walleye tournaments, I'll probably try it out next year.

bobalong 06-13-2018 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavYak (Post 3798464)
Now that I am home I can see how I poorly worded my first comment regarding breaking the law and understand why you guys had issue with it as it did not convey my point very well, joys of using phone on the go...

For some further clarification.

AEP does not let kayak fishing tournaments count double the legal limit on lakes nor hold tournaments on tag lakes. This even though we use the CPR system and most of our tournaments range from 20-60 guys. The effect on the fish populations by our tournaments are minuscule.

The walleye tournaments are allowed to count more fish then their limit and even hold one tournament at a tag lake. This requires government allowances so anglers can do what would normally be considered an illegal act(see below for details). With ~ 100 teams carrying 4+ walleye in their livewell per day these walleye tournaments without a doubt have a much more significant effect on populations then our tournaments do yet they see less stringent requirements.

As was supposed to be my point, I think the walleye tournaments should be CPR or AEP should at least get rid of the double standards and offer similar tournament allowances to other groups. Better yet they should loosen up their requirements for all tournaments including the walleye tournaments. Many of our tag lakes and C&R lakes are the healthiest lakes in AB and it would make much more sense to hold tournaments at these lakes rather than forcing us to hold tournaments at lakes that do not have healthy populations just because they have open regulations...

For clarification regarding the laws that I have referenced.

From the Alberta Fishing Regulations(act not summary)



And from the summary



Schedule A of the competitive fishing event license must have an allowance for this in these walleye tournaments. My frustration is why only walleye tournaments are given this privilege. My frustration is not with walleye tournament anglers, it is with AEP. As I mentioned in my first post I would actually be interested in competing in these walleye tournaments, I'll probably try it out next year.

Once again you do not have your facts straight, maybe instead of trying to state what the rules are you should maybe take the time to learn them first.


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