Here we go again... Possible BSL in Edmonton.
 

Grab your torch and pitchfork.

I spend alot of time in dog parks, and this past summer I broke up 7 dog attacks - not fights but attacks. Large dog on small dog. 3 times I had blood on my hands and arms. Of these 7 attacks, 3 were Labs, one rottie, one husky, and the other 2 were cross breeds. None looked like bully anything.

Owners of the large dogs that attack claim my dog has never done this before - and I believe that for the most. I have no doubt due to the shock and panic the owners exhibit. Here's the problem, I like to know why the attack happened..

I asked all 7 owners if their dog has squeaky toys - all answer yes.
I asked all 7 owners if their dog destroys squeaky toys - all answer yes.

In 3 of these attacks, I seen what happened leading up to the attack, seen the actual attack and the aftermath. What happens?

Large dog approaches small dog, small dog gets nervous and many small dogs squeak or shriek - one can see the moment the switch flips in the large dogs head, and they see a squeak toy that needs to be terminated. It's not just small dogs either - many large dogs can sound squeaky when excited - and I've seen that stimulate aggression as well in other large dogs.

I wish more people would stop to think about what they are doing to their dogs.

We need DNA testing of EVERY dog that attacks to show what breed or combination of breeds that are doing the attacking. It's fair that the owner of the dog that attacks pays for it.



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...atal-1.4348090

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...nton-1.4249925

Aunt is a very experienced dog handler. Most problems are owner derived problems...however some dogs are unique insofar as the fight or flight or aggression instinct is far higher. Pitbulls are one as an example. Triggers are usually sudden and can be noise or movement related.

I got bit on the leg this year. 6' 200 lbs carrying a pack and bear spray - didn't have time to use it. I had walked past this dog and his owner weekly with zero issue. Some kind of large dog, didn't recognize the breed, same story "he's never done anything like that". Got to spend a week on antibiotics. Been charged by mixed breeds, shepards, labs, aussies, and various little ankle biters over the years, some even after I knew them and their owners quite well. Heck my own (long since deceased) dog even tried snapping at me, once.

My view: ALL dogs should be on a leash if they are off the owners fenced property. You don't EVER know what it's going to do. Off leash areas are a cluster waiting to happen.

Obviously this excludes hunting dogs that are actually hunting.

This is similar to my thoughts. I can't stand bleeding hearts who say large and typically aggressive breeds are complete angels and its the solely the fault of owners for why it decided to snap and attack one day. That's just blatant ignorance and a big part of the reason why so many people/animals have been injured/killed by dog attacks. Yes, MOST of a dog's behaviour problems are owner derived. No question about it. But most owners are not capable of training a dog--who has been selectively bred to be prone to aggression when challenged and have a strong fight over flight instinct--to be completely docile. And even then, regardless of how well you train your dog, there is always a chance that something suddenly triggers it to attack. Yes, this can be found in all breeds of dogs, small to large, but I haven't heard of a lot of Shih-Tzu's killing people when they decide to snap. Large breed dogs such as Pitbulls or Rottweilers are capable of that.

Worse yet, it seems like there is some large trend to be "counter-culture" and own a dog like a Pitbull terrier (just search #pitbullmom on Instagram...) just to prove that the dog really is an angel. Then every time they're so blown away and shocked when their dog viciously attacks someone or something.

I love dogs, but I don't foolishly view them as big cuddly creatures and not animals that are capable of being highly dangerous and unpredictable. It's not much more different from owning a firearm. You need to respect it for what it is capable of, and treat it in a way that reflects that. Being ignorant and belligerent is when people get hurt or killed.

So, lets look at Ontario, BSL has been in place for years against pitbulls - yet dogs continue to bite. Look up the stats - Shepherds and Labs are now at the top of the list for bites. Rotties are in the top 5.

Pretty crazy isn't it? So, all of you that own Shepherds and Labradors - is it the dog or the owner?


This is why I say DNA test every dog that attacks - and have the owner of the offending dog pay for it. I'm sure the results will make people think - this walks like a duck mentality doesn't work anymore. Montreal forced BSL using 2 "pitbull" attacks - DNA after the fact showed neither had any bully in them. Pretty sad isn't it.

At any given time in a busy dog park, probably 20 percent of dogs can be called bully breeds - these are the bulldogs, cane corso's, the generic "pitbull" etc and I'm willing to bet at least 10 to 15 percent are the generic "pitbull" or crosses. There are alot of pitties in this city and so far, I haven't met an aggressive one in a dog park yet. Tho I have seen many other breeds showing aggression.

Triggers yeah, lets take the large female chocolate lab that attacked 2 small dogs in the span of 10 minutes in Jackie Parker dog park. Didn't see the first one, but i heard it, got there after the fact. I broke up the second one - not hard to see the instant the trigger happened. The shih-tsu ended up with puncture wounds in the neck and a badly shaken owner.

Don't need more rules and legislation, we need a big knife on the hip or in the jeans. Big miserable looking dog walks up the right hand is on the knife left hand forward. Into the eyes or chest if the bastard bites me. Both if possible.
Somehow this will get spun into the CC and OC agenda.

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160...s-in-the-world

Interesting study on domestication.

Foxes have been breed to be domestic.

Ontario enacted BSL in 2005.

https://shawglobalnews.files.wordpre..._dog_table.jpg

Interesting stats.

Statistically no other breed (of the top half of the chart) went up or down too much as a % (proportionately) except the pit-bulls .......... where the pit pulls went down by a significant % which, statically is clear whatever methods they used to "control" pit-bull bites has, without question, has worked effectively and reduced this frequency.

***Despite the list being completely different (the bottom half) as it seems very few breeds are repeated.

Clearly this same "control" was not in place for other breeds.

Come on Ken, nobody needs a knife "like that" :) https://youtu.be/iQrLPtr_ikE

Seriously, you don't want a folder unless you are good at opening one with a big dog hanging off your arm, I can't see wandering around with my Buck 119 on my belt... and CPS would have something to say about it. City bylaw says "No person shall carry a knife that is visible in a public place."

ARG

As far as people's comments who believe "a dogs aggressive behavior is due to the owner" should consider the fact, I have two dogs, both medium sized, one is aggressive toward other dogs and the other is not. They are raised in the same house with the same owners.

I do believe, like children, there is an impact on the way a child/dog is raised and what adults/mature dogs they grow up to be, but it's one element of influence of many. If a dog has an aggressive disposition, all an owner can do is soften it (or, alternately, increase it).

I do believe some breeds are more prone to aggressive behavior.

And I do believe a dog's aggression can be completely different and opposite toward others dogs and toward humans.

Either way I have a male border collie/black lab who is protective, but very tolerant and friendly of other dogs, he has never been aggressive toward other dogs big or small, but has been aggressive (defensive) only when attacked. He, in my opinion, is more likely to be "defensive" in protecting my wife and daughter and I would not be surprised if a threat came into the yard/home (when my son or I was not home) and would take defensive and aggressive action toward a human. If the repair guy goes out to his van and returns and comes in through the front door he will block him and growl and not let him by.

On the other hand, I have a female golden retriever/coyote cross, she is a real biatch and will fight any dog, any size, any time and has a real aggressive streak. She needs to be on the leash at the park. I cannot imagine her ever, under any circumstances, being aggressive toward anyone (human). The repair man can come in/out of the door into our house and she wags her tail.

These stats are completely useless without knowing how many of each breed there is in the province. For example there could be 80,000 Labs, and a 1000 Pit Bulls. Pit Bulls would then have a MUCH higher probability of attacking/biting someone.

The problem isnt the dogs, its the idiots who designed the dog park and owners. Large dogs and small dogs should be separated at the dog park because small dogs can instigate the prey drive in large dogs if they haven't been exposed. So dont get mad at the big dog whos just doing what any other dog would do if not properly trained.

The other problem with dog parks is that some dogs are very possessive/territorial and are just not meant to be socialized without a leash on. If you have a possessive dog with it food or toys,I HIGHLY recommend you DONT take it to the dog park. So that could be where you chew toys come into play.

X2. I was just about to post the same thing.
I have nothing against any type of dog.

Agreed. Difficult to quantify the data without more background information. The statistic are interesting for noting that after BSL was introduced in Ontario, which restricted the ownership of any four breeds of dog that are typically referred to as "pitbulls", the number of bites by "pitbulls" decreased substantially as the number of pitbulls owned in the province nosedived.

that big miserable dog probably licks kids faces at home but he gets out and sees you showing aggression, if hes going to bite someone, im betting you are his first choice

Then Ken would stab him. :)

I love dogs. And cats and squirrels and rabbits.

I never show aggression towards an animal that I do not know, and then only to play with or discipline.

Not my first rodeo with animals, and I am certainly no stranger to pets.

Everyone loves the fighting breeds until it eats a baby. Google it.

Check out the stun batons and walking sticks, perfectly legal in Canada. Haven't had to use mine yet but it's all charged up and ready to go.



https://www.canadaammo.com/

I thought all conductive energy weapons were illegal?

Just the ones that fire probes or are handheld and able to conceal?

Hit the nail on the head, I'd just like to add some traits are just present in certain breeds border collies herd, bloodhounds track, labs retrieve, Doberman guard.... unfortunately pit bulls fight

Thank you for this information Silver. You’re lucky dog has such an awesome owner. I am happy to say that the squeaky toys my GWP has, which is exactly four scattered throughput the house are all in one piece and hardly every touched. A ball on the other hand usually never leaves his face. All but one are soft balls he could easily pop but never does. I don’t go to dog parks with my dog for a reason and that is because people who don’t fully know their dogs let them loose there. It’s not my dog I’m concerned about as he has been around several other dogs of all sizes and breeds and has done very well.

It’s the owner with the happy trigger finger I’m concerned about unfortunately. I say that figuratively speaking of coarse but I don’t have any issues spilling blood at a moments notice in a given circumstance. .

I'm still surprised at how many people treat aggression as a condition that can be fixed.

Aggression itself is generally a symptom of an underlying issue. Think about this...

i've seen older dogs get aggressive due to a mouthful of rotten teeth, do the dental and the dog comes around. I've had toothaches that drove me to near insanity - imagine having a mouthful of them for years, yeah, I'd be grumpy too.
When the ex's dog became aggressive with people and dogs, that was the last symptom I needed to prove he was hypothyroid - and aggression can be a side effect of untreated hypothyroidism. Hypothyroidism can be a side effect of spaying and neutering too young - and the dog can't help it. It's medical, and considering we are a pro spay and neuter society...

Aggression can be a side effect of a fearful dog, frustrated dog, bored dogs, dogs with no leadership that feel the human is theirs and they need to protect the property. Lack of socialization, they don't know how to act and correct wrong behaviors. Deeply insecure dogs are some of the most dangerous. The list goes on and on. Fix the underlying issue, and the aggression will go away.

So for people to say that a dog is just aggressive for no reason, I believe there's always a reason.

i'm the lucky one... He won't be contained, we miss a day at the park and he's restless. I'd love to own large dogs, less hassles, but it is what it is. It's not just dogs we have to worry about - it's coyotes, eagles, hawks etc are all serious predators to small dogs. I'm thankful when owners approach to let me know predators have been spotted nearby.

Many years ago I read an American Kennel Club article that talked about dogs that bite. The article seemed to suggest that for the most part there were more recorded bites within certain breeds mainly because there were more of certain breeds. eg. There are lots of biting labs because there are lots of labs in the population.

My take on dogs that mix it up in dog parks is that unless they are properly trained many will do what dogs often do. I think that many think that there job is to defend their owner's space. When there is an intrusion in their space, without a dominant handler, the dogs think it is up to them to sort out the territory thing. Many handlers let their dogs meet and greet other dogs. What starts out as a friendly sniff progresses to an unwelcome sniff. Dogs within a pack have worked out and know their pecking order but two strangers have to sort that out. One has to be submissive and allow the sniff or the fur will fly. Sometimes they will get into a playful tussle but the dominant one will end up on top holding the other down. If the one on the bottom relaxes and submits the two will be friends.

Dog handlers should know that having a well socialized dog is not for the dog to have a fun social life, but one that allows the handler to have a social life when he/she is with their pet in public.

Eye contact is also a pecking order thing. When dogs meet and lock in the eye thing, one must break the contact or the fur will fly.

If the dog fight has not been resolved, don't think your dog has forgotten. It may be a long time but if the two should meet again both will remember and attempt to settle the argument. They will probably skip the introduction and go straight to the fight.

I do not think that confident dogs do not just suddenly bite people. I think that many bite out of fear. It is important to know if your dog is confident or timid.

Even designated off lead areas require the dogs to be in control. I am surprised how many I see just turn their dogs loose to do as they please and later say I have never seen him do that before. Where there are many dogs, there often is many fights.

I think there also is a certain type of dog owner that will not admit it but goes to go to the park in hopes of a confrontation so he can demonstrate that his dog, like himself is not to be messed with.

I think for some dogs their breeding will have an influence on how they react around other dogs. In my previous life I had German Shorthaired Pointers and I hung around other GSP people. For the most part the dogs got along better than their owners. Most of our dogs were Canadian or American bred but I did notice that German or European bred dogs were more dog aggressive and most were very cat aggressive. I learned that the Germans expected their dogs to kill small animals such as foxes on sight. Gamekeepers expected their dogs to put the run on other dogs that were not authorized to be on the property. The German dogs were usually very good hunters but did not get along as well with dogs that they were braced with. So I think that breeding has something to do with aggression even in the non fighting breeds.

All that said, I am glad that for the last 20 plus years I have not had to rely on dog parks to exercise my dogs. When I am out with my dogs I still watch what's coming and know when I need to order my friend to heel.

I have a big gripe with some people. If you see a dog that just begs to be hugged and petted, please ask the owner if you can do so.

I know nothing about dog control.

I know if i had a dog as a companion and family member i would control it.
I know if i had a working dog it would be controlled and worked.

That said my brother has a companion dog,its social and wants to play with people and other dogs .

When he leaves for vacation or work i walk the dog,but after the first go round she is on lease,only because i cannot trust the other dogs in the park.


The thing i found interesting his dog is always social and will submit,but when aggression is shown she doesn't back down.

That said in my travel collecting i have run across several uncontrolled dogs,i have been lucky ,but my patience is wearing.

LMFAO - I think I peed a little.

Reminds me of "the dingo ate your baby" episode on Seinfeld.

My small dog has squeeky toys and destroys them, usually in minutes. Should I be worried that it will attack a large dog ?

You said it right there that off leash areas are a cluster waiting to happen, dogs will be dogs, kinda like bars, sooner or later someone's going to get punched...dogs and people....what a cluster!:confused:

Be careful of the woman who carries a fillet knife...

And we are off on another dog, breed thread:argue2:

Will come back later to catch up if it's not closed...:sHa_shakeshout:

Most instances of aggression I've seen have been small dogs starting something they can't back up. Acting aggressive, barking lunging etc... even with their dog acting like that owners take their dog to off leash parks or approach other dogs while it's on leash. It's hard to have any dog not "defend themselves" when they are being attacked by any dog even if it is an ineffective small dog.