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-   -   Think we have it rough here? Watch Live PD (new show) for an hour (http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=373207)

Ken07AOVette 12-02-2019 04:45 PM
Think we have it rough here? Watch Live PD (new show) for an hour
 
Holy what a bunch of toothless drug addled lying loser moron 'I dint do nuffin' idiots! They clearly do not pay these LEO's enough. Drugs, guns, theft, false identity, and that is nearly every single stop!

Every 15 seconds in the States someone is arrested. Guns pulled for every stop nearly.

What a crazy life.

Not so bad here. The biggest difference is they do not practise catch and release, the sentences they hand out are well deserved!

Also- it does not take many episodes to see they have 'trends' just like us.

YYC338 12-02-2019 05:22 PM
The show isn't that new, it's been around for a couple of years at least. It is a bit of an eye opener what they have to deal with in some jurisdictions.

I'm always amazed when they pull somebody over, the high percentage of drivers that don't have a valid license, or insurance, or proper registration, or all three.

Ken07AOVette 12-02-2019 05:39 PM
The woman that hit the police car- no insurance, no DL
Woman that hit and run- no insurance no DL
The guy that smashed the window- stolen vehicle!

LOSERS!!!

1899b 12-02-2019 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette (Post 4066885)
Holy what a bunch of toothless drug addled lying loser moron 'I dint do nuffin' idiots! They clearly do not pay these LEO's enough. Drugs, guns, theft, false identity, and that is nearly every single stop!

Every 15 seconds in the States someone is arrested. Guns pulled for every stop nearly.

What a crazy life.

Not so bad here. The biggest difference is they do not practise catch and release, the sentences they hand out are well deserved!

Also- it does not take many episodes to see they have 'trends' just like us.
Prisons are privately owned down there and they are able
To keep convicts for a longer stint. We don’t have that luxury, we don’t have enough prisons or vacancies..

fishtank 12-02-2019 06:16 PM
thats why prison( i mean correction facility) stocks are paying 10%+ on dividends .

ssyd 12-02-2019 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette (Post 4066885)
Guns pulled for every stop nearly.
I think that has more to do with the six week training courses in some jurisdictions down there...

fishnguy 12-02-2019 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1899b (Post 4066935)
Prisons are privately owned down there and they are able
To keep convicts for a longer stint. We don’t have that luxury, we don’t have enough prisons or vacancies..
And the system sure is working, lol. Like Ken said in his original post,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette (Post 4066885)
Every 15 seconds in the States someone is arrested. Guns pulled for every stop nearly.
Lol. And about 45% return during the first year after they had been released.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/.../c-g01-eng.gif

Land of the free though, lol.

Ken07AOVette 12-02-2019 06:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1899b (Post 4066935)
Prisons are privately owned down there and they are able
To keep convicts for a longer stint. We don’t have that luxury, we don’t have enough prisons or vacancies..
I honestly had no idea. They say here it costs something like a million dollars a year to hold 1 person?

I bet I could do it for about $200g. So lets build a big prison, lock up 300 of them and be bazillionaires!!!!

Seriously of the $200g I bet I could pocket $165,000.00.

Someone really smart would do it for $800g instead of the cool mil they say, bill the government and again, bazillionaire!!!

fishtank 12-02-2019 06:49 PM
i read a headling earlier
 
in japan the prison population are getting older , cause seniors find that they get better health/personal care and food in prison ..

https://www.businessinsider.com/japa...-prison-2018-3

fishnguy 12-02-2019 06:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette (Post 4066979)
I honestly had no idea. They say here it costs something like a million dollars a year to hold 1 person?

I bet I could do it for about $200g. So lets build a big prison, lock up 300 of them and be bazillionaires!!!!

Seriously of the $200g I bet I could pocket $165,000.00.

Someone really smart would do it for $800g instead of the cool mil they say, bill the government and again, bazillionaire!!!
Not really. Still nuts though.
Quote:
Total (federal, provincial and municipal) public spending on criminal justice in Canada per year is about $20 billion. (The Parliamentary Budget Officer did a careful breakdown in 2011-12). About 70% of this spending is provincial/municipal. The total amounts to about $550 in taxes per person in Canada per year.
Of this, nearly $5 billion is for jails and prisons, of which about 55% is provincial and 45% federal. The rest is for courts and police.
Compare this amount to other areas of federal spending in the 2018 federal government budget. Aboriginal Affairs totals about $10 billion. The total budget of the federal Department of Health is under $3 billion. Veterans Affairs is about $3.5 billion. The total budget of the federal Department of the Environment is about $1 billion. Corrections/justice is one of the largest areas of federal spending after statutory benefits and debt payments.

Now let’s translate that into costs per prisoner. According to federal data the average annual cost per prisoner in federal prisons is about $115,000. Higher security levels are more expensive. Costs for women prisoners are much higher.
$115,000 is nearly triple the yearly tuition cost at Harvard (about $45,000 US per year in 2015).
The amount spent per prisoner compares to average income in Canada of about $70,000 per household in 2015; $27.000 for an unattached individual; and $39,000 for a female single parent. According to Workopolis, the average wage in Canada in 2017 was about $50,000.
The average annual cost per prisoner in provincial jails in 2011-12 was about $67,000.
The cost per student per year in post-secondary education in Canada was a little over $20,000 in 2012 (calculated from data in this story). The cost of one provincial prisoner could pay for 3 post-secondary education students; one federal prisoner is equivalent to 5 students.
It costs about $45,000 to keep a child in the child welfare system (Adoption Council of Canada), and just about the same amount to keep someone in a long-term care bed in an institution ($126 per day according to Home Care Ontario). Each of these is about a third of the cost of a prisoner in a federal prison.

fordtruckin 12-02-2019 07:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssyd (Post 4066970)
I think that has more to do with the six week training courses in some jurisdictions down there...
Are you referring to basic law enforcement training? If so Montana has one of the shorter State mandated police academies and ours is 12 weeks of basic then field training of 12-16 weeks at your individual agency a year of probation and then mandatory continuing education of 40 hours every 2 years JUST to maintain your certification. If you wish to advance you can take more continuing education to get your intermediate, advanced, and supervisory certifications. Not to mention all the other certifications like medic swat, instructors of various types like DT, firearms, DUI, driving etc... are you familiar with law enforcement training requirements of the USA? If so by all means Continue on, if not then please quit spreading rumors of things you know nothing of as fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1899b (Post 4066935)
Prisons are privately owned down there and they are able
To keep convicts for a longer stint. We don’t have that luxury, we don’t have enough prisons or vacancies..
Not all prisons are privately owned. While yes there are some there are still many state or federal prisons. For example in Montana we have a State Prison in Deer Lodge and a private prison in Shelby.

buckbrush 12-02-2019 07:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette (Post 4066885)
They clearly do not pay these LEO's enough. .
In my opinion this goes for 95% of law enforcement these days. Everyone with a phone filming you. People trying to get a reaction hoping for a lawsuit.
The number of entitled brats you'd have to deal with daily.
Couldn't pay me enough.

HyperMOA 12-02-2019 08:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette (Post 4066979)
I honestly had no idea. They say here it costs something like a million dollars a year to hold 1 person?

I bet I could do it for about $200g. So lets build a big prison, lock up 300 of them and be bazillionaires!!!!

Seriously of the $200g I bet I could pocket $165,000.00.

Someone really smart would do it for $800g instead of the cool mil they say, bill the government and again, bazillionaire!!!
I have to whole-heartedly disagree with you here Ken. I’ll pocket the $200,000 and if the inmates don’t earn me enough through the day in work programs they could have food, blankets, clothing etc repossessed. They need to pay their own way. Prison shouldn't be a free ride, it should be for giving society restitution.

ssyd 12-02-2019 08:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fordtruckin (Post 4067058)
Are you referring to basic law enforcement training? If so Montana has one of the shorter State mandated police academies and ours is 12 weeks of basic then field training of 12-16 weeks at your individual agency a year of probation and then mandatory continuing education of 40 hours every 2 years JUST to maintain your certification. If you wish to advance you can take more continuing education to get your intermediate, advanced, and supervisory certifications. Not to mention all the other certifications like medic swat, instructors of various types like DT, firearms, DUI, driving etc... are you familiar with law enforcement training requirements of the USA? If so by all means Continue on, if not then please quit spreading rumors of things you know nothing of as fact.



Not all prisons are privately owned. While yes there are some there are still many state or federal prisons. For example in Montana we have a State Prison in Deer Lodge and a private prison in Shelby.
Sorry I should have said 9 weeks. The article was written in 2016 but in Louisiana it takes 360 hours, divided by 40 hours per week that makes 9 weeks.

https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/28/us/jo...rnd/index.html

The general jist of the article is that it takes more training to become a barber than a police officer in the States.

buckbrush 12-02-2019 08:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperMOA (Post 4067084)
They need to pay their own way. Prison shouldn't be a free ride, it should be for giving society restitution.
Wouldn't that go against their rights? Prisoners having to work for a living? Pretty sure we have laws against that in Canada.

Ken07AOVette 12-02-2019 08:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperMOA (Post 4067084)
I have to whole-heartedly disagree with you here Ken. I’ll pocket the $200,000 and if the inmates don’t earn me enough through the day in work programs they could have food, blankets, clothing etc repossessed. They need to pay their own way. Prison shouldn't be a free ride, it should be for giving society restitution.
I agree with that completely.

I had the numbers wrong, but they are still massively high.

Bread kraft dinner beans spam chicken and water isn't that expensive.

Yes they should have to work while there. Ride a excercise bike with a generator attached if nothing else. Maybe hotel and hospital laundry.

There would be zero coddling, zero drugs, zero smoking, no benefit to being there.

When you treat your victims like animals you get the care you deserve.

Ken07AOVette 12-02-2019 08:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckbrush (Post 4067091)
Wouldn't that go against their rights? Prisoners having to work for a living? Pretty sure we have laws against that in Canada.
Laws are changed all the time. Mostly to benefit the poor criminals.

Walleye Willy 12-02-2019 08:18 PM
Watch the news out of Chicago. It`s almost as entertaining. Murders, thefts, car chases, etc.

Trochu 12-02-2019 08:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckbrush (Post 4067091)
Wouldn't that go against their rights? Prisoners having to work for a living? Pretty sure we have laws against that in Canada.
And if you willing break the law are you not putting those right in jeopardy?

fordtruckin 12-02-2019 08:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssyd (Post 4067087)
Sorry I should have said 9 weeks. The article was written in 2016 but in Louisiana it takes 360 hours, divided by 40 hours per week that makes 9 weeks.

https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/28/us/jo...rnd/index.html

The general jist of the article is that it takes more training to become a barber than a police officer in the States.
And anyone with a criminal record can become a barber....

HyperMOA 12-02-2019 08:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckbrush (Post 4067091)
Wouldn't that go against their rights? Prisoners having to work for a living? Pretty sure we have laws against that in Canada.
You are 100% right. Ken and I were just fantasizing of operating private prisons. Let a guy dream will ya!!! 😀

fishnguy 12-02-2019 09:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperMOA (Post 4067084)
I have to whole-heartedly disagree with you here Ken. I’ll pocket the $200,000 and if the inmates don’t earn me enough through the day in work programs they could have food, blankets, clothing etc repossessed. They need to pay their own way. Prison shouldn't be a free ride, it should be for giving society restitution.
I would agree with that to some degree. The prison should accommodate some kind of working environment where inmates would work whatever job it is at market rate, paying for their stay, repaying the damage their proven criminal activities have caused, etc. Once and if the damage is repaid, they can pocket the rest that they would be allowed to collect upon their release. Something along the we lines. I mean what everybody does “outside” on the daily basis earning their living, they can do in prison. Want to study? Sure, grade school is free, secondary education is like for everyone else: take out a student loan, like most people, and get educated and pay it off along with the other things. Something like this anyway.

HyperMOA 12-02-2019 09:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckbrush (Post 4067091)
Wouldn't that go against their rights? Prisoners having to work for a living? Pretty sure we have laws against that in Canada.
You know I’ve been thinking about this a bit more and something is bugging me. Let’s say I go and make some stupid choice and am found guilty of something. Likely as a productive member of society I’d be sentenced to community service. Obviously certain charges like murder would be more severe but you know what I’m saying. Now as soon as you are sentenced to prison why do you have a right not to supply your community with service?

Talking moose 12-02-2019 09:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperMOA (Post 4067167)
You know I’ve been thinking about this a bit more and something is bugging me. Let’s say I go and make some stupid choice and am found guilty of something. Likely as a productive member of society I’d be sentenced to community service. Obviously certain charges like murder would be more severe but you know what I’m saying. Now as soon as you are sentenced to prison why do you have a right not to supply your community with service?
Certain crimes, (probably non violent) such as impaired drivings etc.... used to allow you to go to a work camp and work for a reduced sentence.
Buddy of mine doing time for impaireds in the 90’s ran chainsaw somewhere up by rainbow lake and got his sentence cut in half.

RO CC 12-02-2019 09:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talking moose (Post 4067181)
Certain crimes, (probably non violent) such as impaired drivings etc.... used to allow you to go to a work camp and work for a reduced sentence.
Buddy of mine doing time for impaireds in the 90’s ran chainsaw somewhere up by rainbow lake and got his sentence cut in half.
I find it fair! And I bet any inmate serving any length of time would trade labour for a reduced sentence. UNLESS they knew very well that the justice system nowadays is a joke, in any ‘civilized’ country. So they can even chop up one’s head on a bus, munch on his ear and get out in 4 years with the promise of taking the prescribed medication every day. Kinda like sheriff Arpaio’s approach.

fishnguy 12-02-2019 10:17 PM
On the subject of cost. A few other sources:

From November 2015, CBC: Housing an inmate in Nunavut costs 3 times national average
Quote:
The cost to house an inmate in Nunavut is nearly three times the national average.

New data from a CBC analysis shows the price tag to incarcerate one inmate for one year is $206,590, compared to the Canadian average of $71,540.

In Yukon, it costs $129,940 to house each inmate in jail for one year; in the Northwest Territories it costs $102,200 per inmate.
Pretty outdated, but pretty efing crazy, if you ask me.

Not a bad and recent article to read in Globe and Mail, April 2019: Canada’s investment in prison system isn’t bringing results, watchdog reports

Ken07AOVette 12-03-2019 04:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishnguy (Post 4067198)
On the subject of cost. A few other sources:

From November 2015, CBC: Housing an inmate in Nunavut costs 3 times national average

Pretty outdated, but pretty efing crazy, if you ask me.

Not a bad and recent article to read in Globe and Mail, April 2019: Canada’s investment in prison system isn’t bringing results, watchdog reports
That works out to $279 per criminal per day. How the everloving hell is that possible? Do they feed them gold dusted caviar for breakfast and fly in lobster for lunch, Wayago beef for supper daily?

KegRiver 12-03-2019 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperMOA (Post 4067084)
I have to whole-heartedly disagree with you here Ken. I’ll pocket the $200,000 and if the inmates don’t earn me enough through the day in work programs they could have food, blankets, clothing etc repossessed. They need to pay their own way. Prison shouldn't be a free ride, it should be for giving society restitution.
I believe the figure is closer to $100,000 per inmate, still a lot but no one is going to get rich running a prison in Canada.

I know some folks that volunteer in local prisons, they tell me that most prisoners would gladly work, it makes time pass faster, but because a few would take advantage all work programs were dropped or severely limited.

I know a few in law enforcement. And one prison guard. They couldn't pay me enough to do either job.

fordtruckin 12-03-2019 05:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette (Post 4067569)
That works out to $279 per criminal per day. How the everloving hell is that possible? Do they feed them gold dusted caviar for breakfast and fly in lobster for lunch, Wayago beef for supper daily?
haha, I know in the county I worked, I saw the menu for our prisoners and it took less than 3$/day to feed them and they ate better than I do at home. I think what brings a lot of the costs up is once they are in custody the system is responsible for medical/dental/vision etc... One of the intake questions was do you need to see a doctor and if they need med's it all gets covered by the system. For the few that don't need anything but food/cot/shower/clothes there's others who rack up the bills.

Reminds me of a child molester we had that whenever it would get cold or he needed to see a doctor he would breach his conditions of release (generally by being too close to a school or playground etc...) get picked up and a free place to stay.

CptnBlues63 12-04-2019 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fordtruckin (Post 4067611)
haha, I know in the county I worked, I saw the menu for our prisoners and it took less than 3$/day to feed them and they ate better than I do at home. I think what brings a lot of the costs up is once they are in custody the system is responsible for medical/dental/vision etc... One of the intake questions was do you need to see a doctor and if they need med's it all gets covered by the system. For the few that don't need anything but food/cot/shower/clothes there's others who rack up the bills.

Reminds me of a child molester we had that whenever it would get cold or he needed to see a doctor he would breach his conditions of release (generally by being too close to a school or playground etc...) get picked up and a free place to stay.

Yeah when you figure in associated costs, it makes sense. Consider the wages of the people needed to watch over them. We don't need guards in our homes!

It's still not a great deal for those of us footing the bill :(

Maybe an "open" prison right on the north pole.........no guards, supplies dropped from a plain every "X" number of days. That would reduce costs and I'm sure the local polar bears would enjoy helping out with the occasional escapee............ :D


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