Metis hunting rights?
 

I don't know if this is a topic that should be brought to the forum,:thinking-006: but I'd like to hear some discussion on this, I guess it's a real can 'o worms:argue2:

They should have the same rights as us!!!!! To pay for hunting tags !!! If not in my eyes they are just potchers.
Can O worms is now wide open!!!:snapoutofit:

There I fixed that for you.

Can of worms is a understatement.

Far too many pages of this forum have been dedicated to this subject in the past for me to do justice to them by re open some mighty nasty wounds

Sorry guys, I'm new here, so I wasn't aware of previous posts on this subject. Maybe I should delete my post?:thinking-006::sign0161:

Unregulated killing of game is just that. It doesn't matter if it's called poaching or subsistence hunting or anything else, in the end it's not fair to the environment, the animals, or the people - this generation or the one's to come. If somebody's half-ancestors got screwed over in the past, well that's horrible but there will never be a reason good enough to warrant limitless killing of our natural resources. It's BS. If, because your half-ancestors used to hunt (so did mine, by the way, just on a different continent) you feel you deserve to hunt and kill more game than I do, giver, but lets be realistic about it and have limits, licenses, and tags to make sure we're not shooting our kids in the foot.

Nope, just try out the search function, and have a good long read.

Might aswell lock this sucker up right now, we all know whats coming and how it's going to end.Blah, blah, blah, all should be equal, blah, blah ,blah, not fair, hunt with a stick and sting ,blah, blah,poachers and so on. Lock it up.:1041:

x2 ............. otherwise here we go again:fighting0074:

Why??
 

Is everyone so pessimistic? Can we not have a civil intelligent adult conversation without all the borderline racist comments, accusations of racism etc? :argue2:

In reality, you will find most on this board, including the Metis that come here agree that it should be a level playing field, and everyone should be subject to the same rules and regulations. Let's face it, everyone herein Canada :scared0018:comes from somewhere, (even the natives at some point and time) and for the most part one of the deciding factors in making the trip was due to be out from under someones rule! All of our ancestors at some point and time were subject to discrimination, and persecution from another group................ so why can we not all get along and just be equal. Oh wait....... I know ........ it's the politicians without any balls.......and I don't mean the few women who have been successful in the political arena, but the left wing Liberals who think that everything in life should be handed to them by the government on a silver platter. I am all for helping those who truly need it, but way to many who could be self sufficient choose not to be and hang off the public teat far too often.

Very well said!
I am sure it wont take long for this thread to get derailed... but

I have a very hard time understanding why the Metis hunt can not be regulated ie: number of tags and some season restrictions and still allow enough hunting for subsistence.

Ideally we could all be treated equally and abide by the same rules but that is probably wishfull thinking.

There are 27 other threads on AO on this topic you should read as background, all filled with vitriol and rage, and almost all closed down by the mods in the end because people ended up acting like 2 year olds. Happy reading.

I guess we need to go through this again every few months....

maybe they shouldn't pay but they should be regulated. without doing so there is no way to manage endangered wildlife.

x2 I agree with you 100% about the Government having no ball....they have no problem taking things any from us but give every thing to the Indian.Come on enough is enough. I heard this morrning from a fellow employee that the Gov. is going to give a large sum of money to all the tready Indians. The reasoning is that the Gov. promised every family a horse and a cart in the original tready and never came through.Now they are going to make good by giving them thousands of dollars.If this is true,when is it going to stop.My family has been here for over a 100 years and WE get nothing.:angry3:

There is realistically only one group of people that stand a chance in changing these laws for the better, and that is the Metis and Native people. In my opinion, any outdoors-enjoying Metis or native that is currently NOT fighting these backwards laws is as much to blame for the problem as the governments who set it up in the first place, or the governments that refuse to rethink this issues.

Believe me, if I thought I could stand up and fight this to my death WITHOUT looking like a jealous, racist white man, I would.

The point is not that Metis and natives get these 'rights' and other people don't; the point is that unregulated killing of our game is allowed, and happening. I don't want the right to kill as many animals, whenever and wherever I want, and neither should anybody. I 'm happy with the rights I have, because those rights make sure our animals will be around for the next generations.

very well said

[/thread]

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/techn...003/story.html

Alberta Metis lawyers urge judge to ‘go outside the box’



Final arguments begin in landmark Metis hunting case



By Darcy Henton, edmontonjournal.com June 23, 2010


Metis hunter Ron Jones poses with the antelope he shot near Suffield, Alberta, on January 26, 2008, in defiance of the province's decision to ban out-of-season hunting.

Photograph by: Bruce Edwards, edmontonjournal.com




MEDICINE HAT — Lawyers for Alberta Metis are urging a provincial court judge to "go outside the box" with a decision that goes beyond what the Supreme Court of Canada has ruled in previous Metis hunting cases.
Jean Teillet, a descendent of Metis leader Louis Riel, told judge Ted Fisher Tuesday that he need not link Metis hunting rights to specific communities or regions as judges have done in previous cases in other jurisdictions.
Alberta Metis were a mobile people who hunted across the plains and can't be restricted to hunting around settlements in northern Alberta, Teillet said.
"We think that you should get out of that box," she said in the first of three days of final arguments in a landmark Metis hunting trial that has stretched more than a year.
She rejected the province's contention that Metis have no constitutional right to hunt in southern Alberta because they didn't live there.
Teillet was arguing before about 50 Metis supporters from across Alberta and Saskatchewan.
Teillet said a ruling is necessary because a court decision can't be pulled back at the whim of a government.
Teillet said Alberta and Metis had a successful interim hunting agreement that the government unilaterally rescinded. "I think the evidence is pretty clear it fell victim to the winds of political change," she told the court.
The trial, which began in May 2009 in Medicine Hat, has heard from 35 witnesses, including six experts in Metis history. It is expected to conclude this week with final summations by lawyers for the Metis Nation of Alberta and the provincial government. There may not be a decision before the end of the year.
The key issue is not whether Metis have a constitutional right to hunt, but where they can exercise it.
The Alberta government says Metis, who primarily reside today in northern Alberta, can hunt in 160-kilometre radius of specific northern Alberta communities only, but the Metis say their rights to hunt should extend across the province.
Ron Jones, of Leduc, and Garry Hirsekorn, of Medicine Hat, initiated the court action more than two years ago when they killed animals out of season for food in community hunts staged by the Metis organization.
More than 25 other Metis hunters have also been charged with hunting illegally, and what happens in this case will determine if it is necessary for them to go to trial.
The charges stem from community hunts the Metis staged to force the matter into court after the province ended the interim hunting agreement that recognized that Metis could hunt, gather and fish for food anywhere in the province. That agreement was reached after the Supreme Court's 2003 Powley decision recognizing a Metis constitutional right to hunt.

So special rights aren't enough, they now wish for Extra special rights.

Bruce..
Why shy away from the discussion?

Sure we all know that it might end up "Locked up" but by you posting that silly comic, you are trying to deny people from learning about what has transpired and what may happen.

I think you are afraid of the ruling that may come down and are trying to dissuade some folks from openly discussing this travesty.

Don't keep silent on this one people. This is a VERY dangerous proposition.
Keep your comments to the subject at hand.


Jamie

it's comments like this that make the conversation unbearable. so please if you can't contribute just read.


209x50, i've never read that before, it's good to know that the courts are starting to recognize that sustenance hunting is just that. if they want to hunt for sport they should hunt like the rest of us. (i still believe that they should hunt in the same season with the same tags though)

Sustenance
 

If you are sustenance hunting, there is no reason why you cannot restrict your hunting period to coincide with the usual hunting season, which the biologists have deemed the best time to be hunting without putting the hunted animals under damaging or undue stress. Freezer technology is well distributed. My hunting for sustenance (as I hunt to eat, I am not a trophy hunter) is adequate so that I have deer all year round...... I see no reason why they should have a open season year round. This is especially evident in the spring when the animals are more vulnerable (limited food and water) or in the winter when even hunting them unsuccessfully can cause so much stress that they don't make it through the winter.

Bruce I believe you are Metis and the discussion makes you unhappy but I didn't think posting a newspaper article from earlier this week was in any way beating a dead horse.

It's not so much that they can hunt year round, that is given. It is WHERE they can hunt year round that is in contest. The article lays it out pretty clear, the Metis themselves know they don't have the right to hunt all of Alberta but they are asking a judge to give them that right.

2 sides to every story
 

I know of several natives who take a doe mulie late in the season for meat and participate in draws for "trophy animals" just like the rest of us which I believe is the way it should be. As in all societies there are people who abuse rights and use "sustenance" to take any and all animals they encounter. the worst situation I have seen is a "status" individual who braggged and had the pictures to prove it that he has harvested many trophy animals over the course of years under his status. I think that is just plain wrong. These individuals give all staus people a bad name which is like the bad hunters making it impossible for all of us. If I was hunting for meat an antelope would probably be one of my last choices to filll the freezer.
Rob

When I see self proclaimed comments like this from the pruported higher intelect on this form that is when I realize you have your thoughts and I have mine and no amount of dialogue will change thought patterns. Yours or mine. I would how ever like to see some validaty put to your statement with some factual back up on exactly which Metis your talking about.

If it's a "Right" that's what it is..a legal agreement given to peoples, that allow them the "Right" to the privileges defined in that "Right", and was given under circumstances that provided benefit to both sides at the time it was given.
Bitching like school kids is not going to change that,,the Government if they see fit may change the areas of hunting to , " Traditional Hunting Grounds" which are usually located in and around a Metis settlement.

There a lot of "Redneck white guys" that do the same things..don't put all people under the same umbrella...

An interesting topic. I personally don't see why anyone is allowed to hunt year round. The charter of rights and freedoms say we are all equal and should be treated as such, Allowing minority groups special privileges goes against said charter. It seems like no one on that side is happy with what they are given, you give an inch and they want a mile. In 2010 very few people in Canada need to sustenance hunt, If you can't afford a pack of ground beef down at the safeway then you have bigger problems to deal with besides where and when you can hunt.

And before anyone goes off calling me a racist and what not, I have no issue with Indians, full blooded or half, that work for their living, are not addicted to drugs or alcohol and do not complain about the government all the time. Hard working clean Indians are alright in my books.

What is this thread really going to accomplish? Really? Besides everyone getting all cranky? When this tread runs its coarse someone let me know what was accoplished please.

I had to look up "vitriol" to find out what it means. It sounded to me like it might be some kind of medicine but I see now that it's not. So I learned something today, Okie, and I thank you for that.

I had no trouble understanding the meaning of the word "rage'", however. It means "extreme anger". Does it strike you as odd, Okie, that there would be a large number of members on a forum such as this one who would be extremely angry at the possibility of a significant portion of the population of this province being given rights which have the potential to end sport hunting as we know it for the rest of us simply in the name of political correctness?

Are there any metis AO members reading this thread that go out each year and buy a hunting license, tags & draws and hunt in legal areas during legal times (as defined in the Regulations, not in a treaty) just like the rest of the hunters? If so, you should be proud of yourself. You have clearly made a choice that will help sustain our resources. This is step number one.

So if there are any reading this, I encourage you to speak (or type) up. I honestly don't know how many (if any) fall into this group, but if we can get this group talking and cooperating with each other, well, that's would be the best start conservationists could ask for. I know for a fact you'll get nothing but overwhelming support from the vast majority of hunters and outdoor enthusiasts.

Anyone?