I want a FLAT shooter.
 

This flat shooter topic comes up often. A fellow wants to discard his 30-06 for a more "flat" shooting .270WIN, or so on and so on. I would love to see a definition of a flat shooter vs one that isn't. Of course I'm not speaking of a 30-30 vs a 220 Swift, so let's stay within parameters. Why would one not consider a slightly higher hold over, and maybe at longer range a turret adjustment. Are folks that look for a flatter shooting caliber expecting it to do their homework for them in terms of a couple of inches which in terms of kill zone would make little to no difference at all. Flat shooting seems to be an overused and misunderstood phrase. Define flat shooting. :)

This is what comes to mind when guys talk about flat shooting guns :)


http://i.imgur.com/sYvFb82.jpg

257 weatherby.

I would say because too many people don't get out and actually shoot their rifles enough to know where to hold. Therefore they read something in a magazine and try to adapt it to their next purchase.

I have talked to many people while working on a gun counter that shoot 1 box of ammo every 3 or 4 years, try and tell me their 270 is way flatter than a 30/06. Or their 300 Win Mag is slower than their 300 WSM, but with the same 180 grain bullets the Win Mag bucks the wind better and hits harder.

And my definition of flat is the 26 Nosler. I read it in a magazine!;)

.22 loudenboomer



Or the 270 weatherby.

Was told not too long ago by a self proclaimed xpurt that the 17HMR is flat shooting to 500 yards, oh and the muzzle brake on his 338 WM increased the muzzle velocity by 500 fps :test:

Cool
 

Now I got to get a muzzle break:confused:




Jk:)

I have met a few idiots like that, perhaps they were related to the one that told you that nonsense? :)

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Related or ret...

204 ruger

For those that are not aware:

Many of us were shooting long before the laser range finders came out ad remember zeroing our rifles for a maximum point blank range.
Using this theory, a shooter would zero their rifle so the bullet wold never be above or below a certain radius, ,about 4" , so that would be in a 8" circle.

In those days unless you had a monstrosity like the Barr and Stroud ( I have owned two of them) you had to estimate (and the the Barr and Stroud was nothing to carry around !!) and a flatter shooting gun was a great advantage to those that hunted and shot the longer distances.

Today it is not nearly so important ( in fact if you are using a laser range finder, I find it totally unimportant ) to shoot a cartridge that is particularly of flat trajectory if one is using a range finder.
The interesting thing is, most I know have shot far more animals well within the MPBR of their rifles than outside of it,and most were within distances that a range finder was not needed.

I never really worried about it myself, but I am a heavy for calibre, slower velocity type hunter as opposed to a lighter for calibre , higher velocity type hunter.
Each has its advantages, ad draw backs.:)
Cat

Would have to agree here. That's why igot two. As far as legal hunting cartridges in alberta is concerned it can handle most situations. Without punishing recoil its a cartridge that will last a hunters lifetime.
It's not without its demons.
Imo a flat shooter is any time the horsepower to bullet weight ratio is imbalanced to favour improved velocity.
Also there has to be a donor cartridge in order to create a benchmark level of performance.

The 257stw is another notch up from the 257 wby.
There have been a few pilots of 257/300wby that are stellar performers. But barrel lifecycle is in the few hundred round category. It is the demon.
So back to the drawing board.

For Coyotes I like things flat. My favourite is the 243/243 AI shooting 55gr BT's at 4k. It definitely gives a bit of margin for error when a rangefinder cannot be deployed quick enough. An inch or two can definitely make a difference here.

I define "Flat shooter" as a cartridge with a maximum point blank range of around 300 yards. I like a "flat shooter" because 300 yards is as far as I am comfortable shooting in the field and I hate carrying around extra junk like a range finder. With a "flat shooter" I only need to be able to judge two ranges, "close enough" and "too far", both of which I have a pretty good handle on, I then simply point and shoot.

So for me MPBR of 300 yards = flat shooter.
I like a flat shooter because I don't need to use a range finder or a hold over out to what I call my maximum hunting range.

I must be getting old. I still don't own a rangefinder. I've gotten used to using the reticles on my scope to estimate range, that and getting close. Most of the guys Ive hunted with recently pack them however. Definately an advantage, I just can't be bothered to pack one myself.

Nosler 26.

Zero to 415 yards. Right out flat

3400 fps at muzzle with 129gr LRAB

It is that :), Ok, not quite but was still a fun project and still a fun gun! A lot flatter than my old 308 :)

http://i.imgur.com/v3oHCUz.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/8oOy6Sw.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/6kYZsHl.jpg

Nosler really does, need to learn what the word Trajectory and bullet flight have in common!

Biggest LIE ever put in print by a rifle company....

Personally, anyone who mentions "flat" to me, I assume they have no clue about ballistics. There is no flat. The only given variable at any range is drop or gravity. Flatter? Sure, not flat....... No such thing
I'd take a 30-06 any day over a 270. That extra inch of flatness at 200 means nothing. I still love my 270 though...that would be rifle specific.
No offense to anyone though, good luck with your ultraflatlaserbeam when shooting into space, hope the moon can withstand it lol
Merry Christmas all.

Regardless of bullet weight, what makes a rifle to be regarded as flat shooting is how fast you can get the bullet to the target. Simply stated, the faster the velocity the less time for gravity to perform it's magic on the projectile. When teaching Hunter Ed. I often asked the question, if I were to hold a bullet in the air at the same level as the barrel and drop it at the precise time a bullet fired were to exit the barrel, which bullet would drop faster and hit the ground first?
Answer of course, both bullets will drop at the same speed and hit the ground at the same time. Conclusion, the faster you get it there less the drop.

Wasn't there someone shooting a .270win lazer beam not so long ago?

LC :)

300 rum
 

300 rum 130 gr barnex flat shooting .

ditto ...well said

yup ..that too ...lol

Zero your laser beam at 300 yards then?? 4-5" high at 100? Or 2 -3" high at 100? Depending on the strength of the laser lol.

My 270wsm shooting 110gr ttsx is flat enough for me.

I seen a nosler 26 in action this fall, that's as flat as I've seen anything shoot.


If you want flat I'd suggest trying one of those. And they sure lay the smack down on deer with a 129gr bullet out past 500yds.

The biggest confusion in the shooting community regarding flat shooting is external ballistics vs external bull-istics.

Like Cat said earlier. When I hear flat shooting I think a cartridges ability to stretch the Max point blank range. This allows for a more forgiving shot when rushed and you need to make a quick decision and don't have the luxury doping your shot. That’s the first thing that comes to my mind. Although, if you’re asking for a definition of what flat shooting means. I can’t provide that. There are too many ideas out there and not a straight definition. Many of these wicked fast varmint cartridges are great up close (under 4-500 yards) but past that range, they drop like a rock and are not so FLAT shooting anymore. So are they still classified as flat shooting? That’s kind of what I’m getting at and I believe the OP is asking too. You can’t compare apples to oranges. It’s the individual who does compare apples to oranges, these are the same individuals who come up with these outlandish stories or state completely bassackwards information.

It's funny though. I've spoken with a few individuals who are self-proclaimed experts as well. Most everyone knows or agree to some extent that the force of gravity and air resistance are the main forces the affects a bullets rate of fall. It’s when the speed of a certain bullet vs another bullet is discussed that those people get all confused.

When comparing bullet A to Bullet A, then yes speed is the only factor that will affect the ‘flat’ trajectory (or max point blank range) that most speak of. That’s because those bullets are identical. Being identical, then theoretically speaking; regardless of one travelling at 0 fps away from the gun and the other at a blistering speed of 5000 fps. They will both inevitably rest in the dirt at the same time. I find that the people who tell me that there gun shoots so flat that they can shoot at deer at 500 yards without a holdover (of course I’m using this as an exaggerated example) are the individuals who originally agreed with the above statement that gravity and air resistance affect a bullet, ect. They agree with the statement but don’t understand the ‘air resistance part’. All they know is that light and fast is best! And if you’re not shooting at long ranges then that theory will probably serve you well. These individuals are the same ones who state ‘lighter bullets are affected by the wind more than heavier bullets’. They say that because they don’t understand that weight has nothing to do with it. Generally speaking, yes lighter bullets are affected more in the wind more than heavier ones. Although, that’s not because of their weight.

Ie, compare the lighter 105gr .243 cal bullet to a heavy 230gr .45cal bullet. Both shot at the same velocity, even though the one bullet is more than twice the weight of the first it will be affected by the wind more than the first. That’s because of the Ballistic coefficient. These bullets are kind of like comparing apples to oranges though. It’s just an example. The first is designed for rifle cartridge and the second is designed for a pistol cartridge.
Back to self-proclaimed experts. It’s when these people forget about or don’t understand air resistance that the problem occurs. These individuals get confused and proclaim useless exaggerated claims when they start to compare cartridges against others. And when doing so unintentionally compare apples to oranges.

If you’re really interested in learning about what effects the external ballistics of your bullet then I’d recommend reading a lot of literature on physics or literature from rifle enthusiasts point of view but backed with numbers. There is a ton of great information out there.

Here’s a site that really opened my eyes when I first started t to learn about projectiles and external ballistics.
http://www.frfrogspad.com/extbal.htm

"Flat" is only a relative term - not absolute. All bullets begin to accelerate downwards due to gravity the instant they leave the muzzle - no exceptions. So the faster a bullet reaches it's target over a given distance, the less drop it will experience. The pull of gravity is the same whether you shoot the bullet horizontally or drop it from your hand and the distance both drop will be the same for any given time interval. Physics, not magic.

Any rifle can be a flat shooter :) 30.06 with 150gr high bc load zeroed at 250 yards will hit 15 inches low at 400

My flat shooter is a 25.06 shooting a 100 gr load. I can shoot flatter with 85gr loads....................but what am I shooting at? Paper is easy to kill.