Steel shot
 

When are we going to take action on the use of steel shot over land so we can kill geese quickly and stop the suffering and loss of a good 10% of the birds shot at.

There are other non-tox alternatives available that better mimic the performance of lead. If you are hinting at getting lead back.....I'm sorry but I think you are dreaming there. Steel definitely does require some pratice with and the hunter must change his shooting style but when used within its performance range, it is very deadly.

After this falls goose and duck hunts, I see very little practical reason to revert back to lead. (I did'nt like the change to non tox when it came out too)
I've determined what patterns well in my shotgun, and was un relenting in that quest. Once it was determined what was required to get good patterns out of my shotgun, I was killing geese and ducks at reasonable ranges with little or no diffrence to the previous lead loadings at the same ranges.
The trick is evaluate, learn, and limit. It takes a bit more time, tinkering or shooting of patterns, learning how to call better, and how to manage your decoy spread better, and then keep the distances reasonable.(< 50yds) Birds die, and there you have it.
Gone are the days of fence lining and sky busting, and actually since those days are gone I've gotten better at this game of waterfowling, and started to really enjoy it a lot more.

Dick, I remember the good old days of the Crusher McCoys. That was one seriously deadly load for geese.

Bobby B.

That was back in my infancy as a waterfowler. We had no decoys and elected to pound those geese as they left Wavy Lake often to high and to dumb to realize that a good blind a few decoys were the way to go.
But ya that was a hideous loading were'nt they.;)
Heck I still think I have bruises from shooing them. What's it been 12 or 15 years?:lol:

Hey 42 drake stop sky busting them and you wont have a problem. I have never put a goose down alive because of the steel. I have put them down alive because of a bad shot or I mis judged the distance but IMO steel is almost as good as lead these days. Try shooting them 5 yards off the ground isnstead of 50 and you may have a chance.

Dick,

There were decoys; 40 lbs apiece made out of 1/2 of a car tire. We also shot over Russels' 700-800 decoys.

Bobby B.

Bob: we also did'nt know squat about decoy layouts, or blinds, or calls.
Once it all comes together, the ol' Crusher McCoy's became mighty redundant.
Not that the Crushers did'nt have an application, but in all seriousness, how many more geese did thet allow us to kill, maybe 1 or 2 at best. And when you got darn near your limit on the ground already, I feel it's a might mute point.
Steel works, and if it's patterned it works better than any of the buy the cheapest off the shelf gang will ever get to know.

I'm afraid the days of lead are long gone my son... Time to get with the program and learn to hunt and shoot a shotgun.

Lots of shotgunners sold their guns and quit waterfowl when steel came out , mainly because granpas gun would split with steel , me and my model 12 win as an ex:.
Altho this year l did buy a bird licence for the first time in 1o years and used a Win model 2200 full choke.
With the new 3 in /3/1/2 shells guys are thinking they now have bazookas and are blasting birds a half mile in the air , seenum , my nephew included , haaaa.
When l was shooting with my old model 12 pump with lead , never did l miss , now l cant hit bugger all.
We still lose tons of lead in our lakes and ponds from fishermans weights , dont make any sense does it.

There are some lakes (I dont think in AB) where you can even use lead weights for fishing you have to use tungsten or some other non-toxic metal.

Yup...lots in Alberta...everything in National Parks

I didnt know that. I dont fish national parks I will have to be more carful. Any ideas what ones.

All of them!

All the lakes in Alberta you are not allowed to fish with lead? I am very doubtful of that.

The problem with lead shot is the ducks and a geese ingests it and gets absorbed into their bodies by their acidic digestion. Lead itself does not present a huge problem from fishing due to the fact the waterfowl do not usually eat fish weights. Lead weights will sit inert in the water, not a problem. It is the acidic environment that will cause the lead metal to become soluble, then it presents a problem.

At least that is my take on it.

.

I always liked the rule that was in effect for a few years about the lead ban only being within what was it, 400 meters? of standing water. On dry ground, it's an unnecessary ban that contributes to far more mortally wounded birds, especially geese, that make it back to water to never get up again. First few trips with steel were astounding to us, particularly for me because I tend to shoot "cleanup" in the field. I use a 10 gauge O/U and was astonished to watch a goose hit twice with steel keep on going. I was accustomed to the instant kills that 2 1/4 oz of #2 and BB lead supplied, out to easily 70 yds. Choked full/full my O/U is actually closer to a modified and needed no alterations to handle steel. We finally resorted to physics, e=mc2. Double the velocity and the energy is quadrupled, so fasteel powder and smaller steel shot (#1 and B) at 1800 fps worked. Problem is, it's tough to shoot clays with my 12 and lead now - the practice is useless. Flight characteristics of steel is dramatically different than lead plus less retained energy per pellet meant shorter shots and a lot more work for my lab. Tried tungsten-iron, but at $4.50 a shell, like most of the nonsteel alternatives, it's hard to justify the costs and we still didn't like the results. If you reload, any modern lead alternative is far too costly.
Big steel shot is also far too damaging to the birds - blows on through and busts them up to the point they're hardly worth plucking. Remember how many flat lead pellets used to wind up against the breast bones of big geese that dropped instantly? Doesn't happen anymore - they're blown to hell, lots of bloodshot damage and big holes through the body, ventilating but not always shocking them to the ground and as mentioned, too many keep on flying.:(

You should be very doubtful about that because I said all the lakes within the National Parks.

Has there ever been 1 confirmed report od a duck or goose dying because on lead it ingested? I have never been able to find one. If it was really that bad they would ban the use of lead 100%.

What was a meadow or dirt in a dry year could be a lake in a normal or wet year, so there is not much sense in classifying any part of waterfowl habitat as 'dry ground' or 'water'.

Yes, there has been ongoing research done on this subject since the 1950's, and the use of lead as an additive in general and the consensus is that lead is an awfull, poisonous and extremely fatal substance to injest, even in minute amounts, not just by birds but humans, too.

Contact DU Canada or Delta Waterfowl, or the biology department of your local university if you care to be enlightened.

We will see the day, when the use of lead in ANY ammunition, even rifle bullets, is banned... So get used to it. I've been shooting steel shot at birds for close to 20 years, and have had absoutely Zero problems with it's ability to kill birds with well placed shots for as long as I can remember... You are correct; speed does kill with steel... Non-steel non-tox is too expensive to be a viable option... And, the larger pellets do far too much damage to the edible portion of the bird- but I shoot my birds in the head so #2 and BB work fine for me.

Rest assured, modern steel shot is safe to use, and very deadly in a 12 guage shotgun on any bird from the smaller quails, on up to the largest 13-14 lb sub-species of Canada Geese, everything in between, and even the big cranes and swans... IF you HIT your target, and the range is reasonable. I don't know very many Waterfowler's that can hit and kill birds consistently beyond 40 yards, but I've seen it done enough hundred or thousand times to know that it is completely feasible.

Most of us are better advised to focus instead on the small details that will allow closer shooting when the birds finish to the decoy spread, and of course, practicing as much as possible, preferably with a skilled shotgunner that is able to correct flaws in poor technique and offer assistance and advice through the learning process.