By the way, when I'm talking about bullets not deforming or poor performance I'm talking about normal bullets. Not Barnes. Barnes are perfect.
BTW nice bucks DD

Good advice and good discussion 921. I agree on 5 shot groups for max accuracy. But if I'm just building a load and trying to find the most accurate, 3 is plenty. I can sometimes stop at 2 shots when they are 2-3" apart. I pull a lot of bullets to save them instead of just shooting a third shot on a load that I know is not going to be the final choice.

I have an 800 yard range at home. But it is so windy here in Wyoming, you can't even test that 90% of the time. Shooting at critters that far away is not ethical IMO. Between no energy and wind drift, it is just too risky. But it's fun to shoot a plate at that distance and it sure makes you confident at shorter distances.

Thanks , and I am referring to hunting bullets as well, played with some 195 grain TMKs from Sierra, 195 grain, I highly doubt any bonded hunting bullet would group like them! However.....they are marginal at best to use on big game so they are out, LOL . This thread was about bullet performance on big game out to 500 yards, I think it is accepted that decent accuracy is a given. I want to be able to take that quartering towards shot with a good probability of penetration and weight retention, these seem to go hand in hand with taking down animals. I am playing right now with 190 gr LRX but never hit anything yet with them. Maybe a water jug test.

I find it hard to believe that at 440 yards a 30-06 bullet barely going through a sheet of plywood.

No kidding considering the US military used it as a machine gun for almost 50 years I've had two of them don't shoot that far but I'm pretty sure I could kill something that far.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

As in all cases don't believe most of what you read on the internet. At 400 yards that 06 is still doing 2500 fps. Don't know where he buys his plywood but I have plate targets that are just barely tougher than that.

Good job, looks like those pictures were taken in the same era when marky mark was still a singer not an actor

So I would have what to gain by making something like this up?

At a quarter mile I could dig the bullets out of the dirt behind the backstop. You would hardly have to dig for them with your bare hand. Don't believe me then try it before you call me a liar.
Why would I make it up?

Were these Barnes bullets you were digging up that looked untouched?

This was back in the ninety's when I was playing with that 30/06. So I keep a scribler (book) for each gun I reload for. I keep track of load ,wind,temp,etc. I don't think I wrote down what each bullet looked like that I found in the bank behind the target. I just remember that none of them really impressed me at that long range as far as power goes.Now I do remember that some bullets like hornadys 220 grain round nose didn't expand at any distance because the are rock hard. I used those on game. Actually i used a lot of these different brands and weights on game. See i would usually get them shooting good and then use them on game and not be satisfied. Thats why i tried so many different load combos until i setteld on those barnes 130 grain original x bullet. In the 30/06 I remember the 200 and 180 grain barnes flat base bullets didn't seem to kill as well as the 130 grain boat tails. On game under a quarter mile the 130 have a bigger effect on what your shooting. That I remember! The heavier Barnes bullets worked good but not as good as the lighter ones.
With the regular hornady,Sierra and Speer bullets they tended to blow up at close range. Man it feels like people are just waiting to pick a part anything I say so I did go and dig out my30/06 scribblers. There are 2 of them. That ruger I have over a 102 different load combinations that I did with just that one gun. This was back 25 years ago. I can't remember every detail.
Its lunch time, I have other things to do today. I can go through my books and see what I can find but I wasn't digging the bullets out of the back stop every time or anything like that. I just remember finding bullets in the bank behind my target that where not very deformed and I'm thinking this is probable very common with all 30/06 shells at a quarter mile.

Those Barnes bullets like speed
I used them in all the wby rifles I have owned
168gr ttsx out of a 300 wby worked great for me
I just didn’t like the fact that they have been known to not expand and pencil through animals

Chill out. No one is calling you a liar but it’s not the plywood that’s stopping your bullet, it’s the dirt backstop.

I'm going through my scribblers here and it looks like the most accurate long range load in that 30/06 was actually with two different bullets that I was using in the same gun at the same time. What I mean is for a while I ended up using the 180 grain Barnes flat base bullet which is now discontinued. I settled on using that bullet out to 300 yards with the centre of my 5 x duplex scope. Then I was using the Sierra 200 grain BT at 400 yards and beyond but using the thick part of my duplex rectile as a secondary aiming point and adjusting the power for proper aiming point at proper distance. The 200 grain was 2450fps at muzzle and the 180 grain x was at 2532 fps at muzzle.
I can't remember if the 180 x bullets where not opening well at long distance and if that was why I was using the Sierra 200 grains for the 400 and beyond. In my notes it says at one point when I was using the Sierra 200 grainers for close up work that I shot two mule deer at 25 and 100, one moose at 50 and three white tails at 10,180 and 100. Yards and that the bullet cores separated and don't hold up very well.
That's from when you could just buy tags for deer without a draw.
You have to remember I put 102 different load combo's through this one rifle and that was over 25 years ago plus I was shooting lots of other guns be sides that one particular 30/06.
My true passion was black powder cartridge rifles.

Umm in the gumbo we get up here you can do that even at 100 yds...308-3006-45-70.......All of them kill plenty good at 100 yds and have plenty of energy...we just have tough dirt lol as for barely making through plywood....how do you figure that? Find any bullets staying in the offside? Sorry but that seems like a silly statement. I have shot through 3/4" plywood at 1000 yds with a 308 and 155 gr sierra Palma match bullets and guess what....it made a hole all the way through. Hard to quantify lack of energy at any range based on how far into the dirt a bullet travels or to say it barely made it through a sheet of plywood based on the same findings.

Very nice deer, you need to invite me along, I'll bring my 300 for comparison's sake:):)

I used to shoot these in 7mm rem mag, 168's.
Shot an elk twice at 180yds and both bullets exploded/fragmented on the rib cage. Penetration was 6" max.
They may be great for long range, but far from good on close range.
Accubonds or Partitions are my vote.

Obsessed
I also said that the bullets looked like you could reload them again because they where not deformed at that range.

Plywood is not a good medium to illustrate how a bullet preforms at any distance .
Dead animals at 400 and 500 yards are however , and there have been Thousands killed at those ranges over the years - and not just with the .300 mag.
I know of a few deer that were killed that far and further withe smaller caliber cartridges and with good terminal performance from the bullets .

As Chuck stated earlier , at those ranges there are a host of bullets that work, a hunter just pick one that is accurate in their rifle .
W821 ,I would add this as well.

You are not the only one who grew up reading books and articles by Keith , Crandall , Yard , Ackmey and Donaldson , there are many here that did , and you are not the only one has has old log books that they still use , so I would like to caution you about lecturing people on the internet about how much smarter you are than the are , because on this forum alone there are many members who have some very extensive existence in firearms and ballistics .
Cat

/\ /\ This guy right here is one of the most knowledgeable gunnys on here. Agree 100%
Just cause your old and have lots of old data don t mean your not mistaken or full of Crap. I have to remind myself of that often as well

/\ /\ This guy right here is one of the most knowledgeable gunnys on here. Agree 100%
Just cause your old and have lots of old data don t mean your not mistaken or full of Crap. I have to remind myself of that often as well

They are a testy bunch on this web page for sure LOL, and yes you will be picked apart by a certain clientele on this page, everyone is an expert. Regardless if you can share on here, take away something from the advice and maybe come away a bit more informed... mission accomplished. :bad_boys_20:

2 x trains of thought with this post, I assumed a bunch would come up and say "any bullet out to 500 yards will work" which I suppose is true, then the others would select long range bullets without really reading what was asked in the post. I think we have access to alot of reloading bullets and I have seen the failures up close when bullets are stressed and as well multiple articles where ballistic gelatin is used at 700 yards or more and there is no expansion. Can a bullet be perfect at 7-800 yards and still hold together if a bear rushed you at 50 yards.....the quest for the perfect bullet. :fighting0074:

Yes they can - they are called Nosler Partition.

No bullet is perfect, the high B.C bullets that are most accurate at 700-800 yards, don't usually hold together through heavy bone at close range, and the toughest bullets, usually don't have the high B.C. and accuracy that people want at 700-800 ,yards.However, 500 yards is far different t than 700-800 yards, and it's much easier to find a bullet that performs from 0-500 yards. I use a TTSX that leaves the muzzle at 3400-3500 fps, and it will penetrate heavy bone at close range, and it still has plenty of velocity at 500 yards to expand properly. Accuracy wise, it still groups very well at 500 yards, out of my rifle.

Nice, I think you caught the point of my post very well. I have on hand 168 grain TTSX and a new box of 190 grain LRX for my 300 win mag, leaning that way for testing purposes as well. Hoping the LRX will expand comfortably out to 500 yards.

I used to shoot 200 gr Partitions for hunting in both 300 WM and 300 WSM at 2860 f.s .
Good bullet ,killed a lot of animals from 50 yds to around 400 yds.
Past that distance the group would usually open up more then I liked.
I also had a good luck with 200gr Speer Hot Cores .
Had to finish bull elk once in the neck from couple of yards and bullet lost approximately %45 of its weight but still hold together with a jacket .
At longer distances 300-400 yds those two bullets performed very similar at 300 mag velocities.
The only thing I did not like about them was the lead tip that was very often damaged in the magazine.
I still use Speers sometimes.
My go to hunting bullet in 300 is 200 Sierra GK for a long time now .
I don't push them too fast ,around 2820 f.s and killed many elk, moose and I don't even remember how many deers.
Only ones this bullet came apart on a cow elk neck shot ,the jacked separated from the core , but the animal dropped and was dead on a spot.
Was shooting this bullet once at a running bull elk and hit him 3 times at around 60,100 and 120 yds .
None of the bullets came apart and penetration was around 20-24 inches with roughly %60 of the weight remaining.

S12