How those Local Hunting and Fishing Shows Operate - And why we NEED sponsors and ads
 

Ok so ive lost count as to how many threads ive now read regarding the 'crappy stuff' on wildtv....and how youtube based stuff is better. It sucks to read this stuff time and time again, that is obviously written by people that obviously have no clue (I don't mean that in a condescending way). Often the complaints are regarding the sponsor ads and in show tags. Unfortunately these are a necessary 'evil', and I'll do my best to explain why. SO....I thought id lay out my own costs associated, on an annual basis, within regards to what it takes for me to make a hunting and fishing show.

First lets take a look at what it costs me to utilize a quality film/production team. I personally use a qualified team of pros because I took feedback I accumulated off of this forum specifically, and didn't want the 'iPhone/gopro filmed presentation look. So, with that, I will openly state that to film an 8 show season - JUST FILMING/PRODUCTION & EDITING - by qualified professionals, will cost me (out of pocket) ROUGHLY 60k. Seasoned camera jockeys don't come cheap, especially if theyre using the latest greatest camera equipment. My show utilizes 3 camera mules. Each guy is a paid a daily rate....plus travel costs (as my team comes in from Yellowknife....8 times per year. I'm also responsible for their meals and lodging.....I haven't even touched on the biggest expenditure, which is collaborating with a top notch editor.....This is extremely expensive....Again, all out of my pocket.

So lets set a number aside of $45,000.00 - Only because I can already feel the naysayers claiming I'm full of you know what using such a high starting $$$ amount lol. But that's ok, Ill work this thread being EXTREMELY conservative and pretend the Ukranian in me managed to get rate cuts on production costs.

Next up lets look at actual hunt expenses, for a full team of 9 guys (6 Cast members & 3 production team members), 8 times per year, over 4 days. I use 4 days because typically that's what is required time wise to get 22 minutes of usable high grade camera footage. The general rule we go by is that 1 hour of filmed camera work equates to 1 minute of usable, show worthy footage. I'm positive everyone on this forum understands how pricey lodging, fuel and food would/is for a full 9 man team....in the bush....for 4 days. lets use a nice round, conservative number of $2000.00. (Based on a food budget of $40 per guy per day x 9 guys equaling roughly $1440.00 - Fuel costs of roughly $400, with two trucks shuttling the 9 man team, AND the final category of 'incidentals such as propane and so forth of we will say $160.00). I DONT cover licensing for my cast, ammo, booze, and so forth. I do cover what I would classify as essentials for the guys to be on the show. Where are we at? $2000.00 of 'employee expenses' X 8 times (number of filming trips per year) equaling $16000.00 for a seasons worth of hunt expenses for my team (Conservatively)

SO - $45,000.00 of upfront production costs PLUS $16000.00 of Hunt/Fishing expenses. We are at A VERY CONSERVATIVE $61,000.00....out of my pocket so far, to basically film myself hunting and fishing.

Now, I wont bring into the equation the costs associated with OWNING your own camera gear. Most show personalities own at least a bit, but in this case ill just classify it as the costs of doing 'business', so as not to 'whine' about it. But, for those interested, we own roughly 12k worth of our own production gear for those times when a camera mules NOT around and I see a good shot, or when I'm back in the bush and want a gopro shot or two without said camera mules around. But again, I wont factor these costs in.

Lets also look at the annual gear expenses - in a coles notes format. We are partnered with a couple decoy manufacturers, clothing and a call maker. BUT....ive never gotten one piece of free gear. This is the usual case for most Canadian based shows as well. We typically pay wholesale plus 10% on any gear we use, so yes, this also costs money as you all know. Lets say roughly $1000 a year for myself because the other guys typically buy their own gear unfortunately. Id love to pay for their stuff, but right now its no feasible.

Now we are at a conservative number of $62,000.00 to film 8 episodes.

Now lets look at the costs associated with airing your show on cable tv. Our local broadcaster is very costs effective, but most guys DONT realize we have to pay to play per say. So lets use another conservative number of 8k for me to air my 8 episodes on a national network such as WildTv.

We are now at $70,000.00......

I have yet to receive one cent or been paid to do what I do. It is purely for the love of the game. I do have HOPES that one day ill get to where Shockey, Rinella, Cam Hanes, Joe rogan are at and literally get paid to do this. But right now, its all out of my own pocket and straight up because its a fun project to work on day in and day out. Keep in mind I hold down a fulltime job and am not factoring in my own time. Which often equates to roughly 4 hours a night, 7 days a week, 365 days per year of home editing of promos, emails etc etc.....All while trying to keep my wife from leaving me and keeping my two young kids happy. I also haven't factored in canine costs. My dog works A LOT each season so yes food, canine gear and vet bills add up all in the name of doing it for the love of the game.

Those in show sponsor ads don't equate to cash money for most of us, but they do enable us to at least salvage some sort of savings on equipment, and provide our sponsor partners SOME ammo to at least share clips and vids on social media in hopes that ONE DAY we will get paid for our hard work. But that's a very big IF/MAYBE.

I'm ALSO not factoring in other incidentals such as donations. For example, Our team is donating a raffle prize of bring on our show over a 3 day filming period in support of my sons hockey team in Millet Alberta. We wont see any real benefit from it, but its supporting my kids team so I'm game....but tis going to cost me roughly an additional $1500.00 next season. Again, for the love of the game.

YouTube is apples to oranges boys and girls. YouTube has no broadcast costs associated, and MOST guys basing their delivery platform on such mediums such as youtube or vimeo are self filming and not operating as a 'business'. Meaning cash in and out usually isn't accounted for because those guys would be doing it anyways. That's why theres no ads on youtube. It costs next to nothing to do, and are often filmed using mid tier camera gear and gopro gear. Again, apples and oranges.

MY WHOLE POINT.....we need to support guys like myself. I do it for no other reason than to share my own experiences in the field. I do it for fun. Us film guys are in fact part of the same community of outdoorsman as every guy that comes on here and blasts verbal poop. I'm flabbergasted there isn't more support for local video products that manage to go mainstream.

I'm going to encourage questions here. Ask away. Lets make this an open discussion.

Jeff
The WildSide

I must admit, that I rarely watch Wild TV these days, but I still watch certain shows now and then. I haven't seen your show, so I can't comment on it specifically, but I choose which shows I watch based primarily on the hosts of the shows, and on content that specifically interests me. I have been watching some programs that deal with hunting pheasant and upland bird hunting over dogs, and some shows by Cody Robbins, Jason Pederson and Jim Shockey, but I absolutely refuse to watch shows featuring certain hosts, regardless of what they are hunting or where they are hunting. Certain hosts, and shows promoting long range shooting along with the show Polaris puts on, are the reason that I rarely watch Wild TV any more. I understand that it takes money to run a show, and it's a shame that many people no longer watch Wild TV any more, which means that new shows have an even more difficult time attracting new viewers, and new sponsors, but the fact is, that many viewers are tired of watching certain shows, and certain hosts, and have stopped watching the channel as a result

at least you had fun doing it

Yep i wholeheartedly agree. My show only hit wildtv twice last year, again because of budget restrictions, and couples with the fact cable is a dying medium so im exploring more cost effective mediums such as apple tv and droid tv. But i agree man, some personalities pick my arse too. BUT, try to understand some guys are trying to find their own niche. Nonetheless, just trying to provide some insight here. I often get told by guys that have never attenpted to make show that they can do better, yadda yadda yadda. Well so can i! But i need jim shockeys million dollar budget

Well written.

IMO (and as usual it's worth what you paid for it) there is an element of competition and frustration when hunting shows encourage additional pressure into local hunting areas. Case in point Kohler saying "the edmonton bow zone" 40 times an episode, to bring in business for whatever outfitter he was with. Now those of us who live here can't find a place to hunt, and while that's not the sole cause or even a large part of it, it's an easy target to vent at. Same can be said for most productive areas of the province. I realize this is not new either, wars have been fought over hunting territory for most of mans history. I have a lot more respect for shows that say "Alberta/Yukon/BC" vs basically giving out GPS coordinates.

As far as the ad content, it's more the approach that can turn people off. Cam, Steve, Jim, Remi etc all have a humble way of saying "hey this is what works for me, check it out" vs blasting metal music and "I COULDNT HAVE DONE IT WITHOUT MY ....... YOU HAVE TO BUY ONE!!!!"

None of this is a comment on the Wildside, I haven't seen your show but I will add it to the PVR list.

The commercials are over the top...PVR it and watch what you want...I for one like wild tv and continue to support it...I can remember when it first started was like a kid at Christmas...better than any other of the zillion channels on satellite these days

It's not even the production quality, or the hunt species and locations, it's more about attitudes and personalities.I enjoy watching certain hosts regardless of what or where they hunt, because of their personality, and their attitude. I really enjoyed watching Shockey's Saskatchewan hunts where he had his father and father in law on the show, because the people made the show for me. I would rather watch those episodes than an episode shot in a remote location with a huge budget. On the other hand, I haven't watched a show hosted by a certain Alberta writer, in years because of his personality and attitude. Now that there are so many shows, many people have had Wild TV overload, so they are very fussy about which shows they choose to watch.

You wont find us on wildtv this year partner. You will see us on a couple episodes of maximum limit fishing, ice fishing in Yellowknife. But I passed on cable this year, again, as I film some more episodes and explore more expansive and cheaper delivery options.

You will find a couple of episodes on youtube though bud. And ps I do appreciate you stating youll check out our stuff, whether youre bsing me or not lol. Those are the comments that make me keep making shows for this twisted racket lol

If this is the reason you are doing it, then why take the financial risk and burden?

No, WE do not need to support people just because they spend more money than someone else.


I don't distribute my support for others based on their expenditures. I will choose to support those whose product I like or need.

This could be important to note.
To me and perhaps many others, polishing does not equate to better art or entertainment.
I will choose a rough unique piece over shiny reproduction every time.

Do not expect support just because you are doing something.
If you are Not getting the support you need, reflect on what you can do differently to gain it.

yep we are on the same page. Like I said some guys just come way to far over the top for my own liking. ie- bikin clad ladies promoting stuff on a certain show. I personally really like TJ's show, which I'm assuming is the one you are referencing. Tj knows his niche and market. I will say if you talk to TJ in person hes actually a super nice guy.

I was a touring musician for two years in a past life WB as well. I made no money but had my music played across north America. I did it because I wanted to, and because not many people can claim they followed through on such a dream. Should I have not bothered to follow my dream in that regard too?

For a guy that's often insightful and intelligient this is a pretty silly post WB. I can without an uncertainty tell you you are by far in the minority within regards to your taste in video. Only a very small share of people will chose a poor video product, with good content, over a professionally produced product. That is fact.

I wasn't stating you all have to support anyone in particular. I assumed people would get my clue that we are all hunters. We all should be promoting what we all do. I think hunting cougars is ridiculous, but youll never catch me on here criticizing a guy for doing it. Nor will I bring him down.

Why don't you just go on YouTube yourself instead of trying to be on a television network that is dying?

We are on youtube man. I'm no longer 'trying' to get on a cable network. I'm working on direct streaming sources that cost me next to nothing to broadcast. Rinella has absolutely nailed this model. You'll never actually get paid any real $$$ to broadcast solely on youtube though, hence why it cant be my only medium.

I admire your honesty, openness,sacrifices and determination regarding your ambitions and what you are prepared to do to reach your goals. However, having no previous opportunity to ask any one else involved in these types of productions, I have to ask a sincere and honest question in response to your post. This is just a question I have often pondered while watching some of the past and current TV episodes. What is your real, honest personal motivation behind all this ?

whats your youtube channel never heard of your show

For sure, good question!

That goes back to how this whole thing got going. My brother in law, who happens to be my best buddy and hunting partner as well as my partner in our show, was discussing with me a couple years back about possibly starting an outfitting operation. We both live and breath hunting and fishing and thought that might be the best option for the old cliché 'if you do what you love its not work'. I do have some prior guiding experience and it was quickly decided that our passion might turn into a job in short order if we went that route. So we brainstormed. I'm a pretty artistic guy (again I was a professional musician in a past life and a lot of those skills are transferable to film editing) so we just tossed out over a beer how neat it would be to film hunts and throw em up on youtube for our friends. It snowballed from there in short order and we have never really looked back to be honest. So I guess the frank answer without beating around the bush is that we both wanted to work in the hunting industry, without having to report to anyone else as employees and we most certainly didn't want to end up in a situation where we are dreading hunting season because that's when the gongshow starts with guided clients and such. Ive had 3 'callings' in life to date. I played a little junior hockey, got to perform on stage for 2 unbelievable years as a singer that provided me with incredible memories along with allowing me to meet my now wife, and now I feel video work is the final of the three 'callings' as I age. lol. hockey certainly aint a 34 year olds game anymore, nor is being the singer of a mainstream rock band - especially when you've lost some of your hair. This really, in my eyes, was my best option to POSSIBLY earn a living without hating what has always been my single main passion.

Channel is 'The WildSide'

Only have one introductory episode on there and one episode from our new offshoot, youtube specific series 'Back to basics'. I cant yet air all my stuff on free mediums.........for obvious reasons

Ah, must have misread something as it sounded like you were still trying for cable network. Internet streaming is where everything is headed and gives people more options and cheaper costs, your working more for yourself than trying to slave for the cable networks. Good luck on your endeavours, I'll be sure to check your channel out.

100% WB. I dont mean to put down what you are doing wildside but you may need to check back in with the populace that's consuming this type of show. To call his post silly on top shows to me you have decided what you believe is and is not effective.

Also, I have consumed more content on this topic then I care to admit and also subscribe to wildtv. I have heard of Hugenuge and yet never come across any of your content. why is this.

Also, it is very possible to use youtube's model as a large launching platform for your content while receiving financial gain from it.

I'm a business grad man. I study this stuff. Not disregarding what youre saying, and to an extent youre correct, but hard market analysis states production quality matters in the grand scheme of things. Theres a reason Outdoor quest is where its at and Jim Shockeys 'Uncharted' was a massive HUGE success. Tj does have the longest running program in the country and I like it, but Shockey just blows everyone away. I equate it to the people that say 'Nickelback Sucks'. Maybe their music does suck, to you. But Millions upon Millions of people that buy their albums year after year, ultimately making them the most successful Canadian Band of all time, would disagree with the assessment that 'they suck'.

Nuge posts a lot regarding his youtube channel on this forum. I don't. Nuge obviously does it as a hobby, currently. I am doing with larger aspirations and personally, would find it cheesy and offside if I was constantly on here promoting my brand. I'm here as a fellow hunter and outdoorsman and nothing more. Furthermore, frankly we are still in 'development'. I haven't officially launched the whole brand yet man. My own business plan would slap my peepee if I got premature with anything :)

And no, YouTube takes time. A lot of time to establish enough of a following to make any real earnings. Again, I worked in music, ive been through that rodeo. I don't want to film 50 episodes, launch them, and wait 4 years to get my 1 million views per to start collecting miniscule royalties on it.

Im not saying production quality does not matter. It matters immensely,However production quality can be done well with a lower means. Honestly its coming across as you are looking to run before you walk. Content matters equally if not more, You can have the shiniest boat on the dock but if it never leaves the dock its just for looks.

A strong brand carries multiple facets to build that brand. I believe you are writing off Youtube way to early in the game. You can run all the streams you want but until you get initial eyeballs on your brand production is worth little.

All the power to you, I hope you succeed in your ventures.

Fair enough. I wish you success and trust your productions will be a lot better than those nauseous "watch me hunt" routines that seem to be everywhere. Something new and different is always welcome. Again, Good Luck !

I see you what youre saying and we are on the same page. But its actually the opposite, I'm definitely learning to walk first my man. I'm building my portfolio before launching on my platforms. And do not misinterpret my not believing I can make an honest go solely on youtube with NOT using youtube. I have to be able to film enough shows, and build a large enough product base before I launch bud. Trust me, youtube will not be neglected...but I want my product to be shiny and packaged before I launch fully. I don't want to provide a substandard product, and tweak as I go. Id rather build a viable offering and launch it at once. But really theres no wrong or right way to do it, that's just my own plan. I have a well paying day job, as does my partner, that we both enjoy. I have time.

Gotta agree with this. Baby steps..

thanks man. Funny you say that because our whole model goes against the typical 'guy in a tree stand arrowing a deer' cookie cutter show model. PLENTY of guys like that format, as do I, but we are going with more of a 'behind the scenes' type model. Our whole model is to show the average group of guys doing their thing, like average guys doing their thing. Camp life, the hunt, the post hunt, the evening giggles at camp etc

This is good. Thank you gentleman for friendly conversation. Its actually very much appreciated. Keep em coming

Just adding that you are bang on here. Again, keep in mind 1 hr of footage equals 1 minute of usable footage. That works out to a lot of man hours behind multiple cameras to build a databank of shows. Again, Hence why I haven't launched a ton yet partner. Again, we are on the same page.....I blame forum disconnect lol

To be fair, nobody makes anyone make hunting shows. Those of us who watch the shows are free to have our opinions on them, and the pushing of products can kill the enjoyment of practically ANY show. Maybe not so much team sports that have been hugely commercialized as long as any of us can remember, but when newer sports are commercialized to ever greater degrees you will always find people that don't like it. Especially sports that the enjoyment of which can be very unique and personal such as surfing, climbing, fishing etc, an industry that try's to define success and commercialise the sport is going to have widespread criticism among the recreational crowd.

If you're going to make sporting shows then being in bed with sponsors is a requirement, I get that... It still doesn't mean that the viewer is required to like it. What it does mean is that you are going to have critics, and you should probably get used to it rather than let it ruffle your feathers.

No feathers ruffled here partner, just trying to provide insight to those that might not know better

Thanks for the effort, but I still don't like The Hunt. To me it seems that commercializing yourself out of quality content is something of a poor strategy.