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-   -   Question about restricted firearms (http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=190085)

nof60 08-28-2013 09:32 PM

Question about restricted firearms
 
Can someone please point to the exact part of the firearms act that prohibits the discharge of restricted weapons on your own property assuming of course that the said property is rural, your residence and that discharge of firearms is done safely.

Thanks

hillbillyreefer 08-28-2013 09:45 PM

Technically it's not illegal, the CFO just refuses to issue you an authorization to do so.

15. An individual may load a firearm or handle a loaded firearm only in a place where the firearm may be discharged in accordance with all applicable Acts of Parliament and of the legislature of a province, regulations made under such Acts, and municipal by-laws.

17. Subject to sections 19 and 20, a prohibited firearm or restricted firearm, the holder of the registration certificate for which is an individual, may be possessed only at the dwelling-house of the individual, as recorded in the Canadian Firearms Registry, or at a place authorized by a chief firearms officer.

elkhunter11 08-28-2013 10:03 PM

The CFOs seem to interpret the rules as they please, and here is the interpretation that they seem to be using.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/restr-eng.htm

Quote:

Target Shooting Practice and Competition

To be authorized to have restricted firearms for target shooting purposes, an individual must provide proof that he or she practices or competes at an approved shooting club or range. For more information about approved shooting clubs and ranges, contact the appropriate provincial or territorial CFO by calling 1-800-731‑4000.
So in order to target shoot on your own property, you would need to have it approved for restricted weapons, and getting your property approved as a restricted range, won't be easy to do.

nof60 08-28-2013 10:04 PM

but that is my point. rurally your att is good from your land location not dwelling so carrying it around property should be covered by att. in town tec speaking you are breaking the law carring you pistol to your detached garage to clean it without a statt.

PartTimeHunter 08-29-2013 05:47 AM

range
 
I recently looked into upgrading my PAL to restricted and was stunned when told I couldn't shoot my handgun (when I finally got one) on my property it had to be at a range/gun club. What is the difference to taking my rifles out back and tearing up some paper with them or doing the same with a hand gun? How in the name of ........ does this make sense?

OpenRange 08-29-2013 05:55 AM

I have a restricted license and the only time I get a gun range membership is in the year that I have to renew my PAL because they require a membership in order to renew a restricted. After the first year expires I just leave it and shoot on my place all the time. The only way police or F&W would know if I was shooting on my place is if I called them to report it. I think if you have a big enough place to shoot and everything is clear then frankly it's none of their business what you do with a gun on your own property. I know that's probably illegal what I'm doing but I don't plan on reporting myself.

sjemac 08-29-2013 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PartTimeHunter (Post 2095757)
I recently looked into upgrading my PAL to restricted and was stunned when told I couldn't shoot my handgun (when I finally got one) on my property it had to be at a range/gun club. What is the difference to taking my rifles out back and tearing up some paper with them or doing the same with a hand gun? How in the name of ........ does this make sense?

It has been scientifically proven that a 308 round will not leave your property -- they essentially fall dead at the fence line. But a 38 round, when fired from a handgun, will of its own accord leave your property and destroy any small schools nearby.

PartTimeHunter 08-29-2013 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OpenRange (Post 2095761)
I have a restricted license and the only time I get a gun range membership is in the year that I have to renew my PAL because they require a membership in order to renew a restricted. After the first year expires I just leave it and shoot on my place all the time. The only way police or F&W would know if I was shooting on my place is if I called them to report it. I think if you have a big enough place to shoot and everything is clear then frankly it's none of their business what you do with a gun on your own property. I know that's probably illegal what I'm doing but I don't plan on reporting myself.

I tend to agree with you. It caught me off guard though. It just didn't make any sense - if it's ok to shoot the rifles with a longer effective range why not a hand gun?

PartTimeHunter 08-29-2013 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjemac (Post 2095766)
It has been scientifically proven that a 308 round will not leave your property -- they essentially fall dead at the fence line. But a 38 round, when fired from a handgun, will of its own accord leave your property and destroy any small schools nearby.

But the nearest school is .... ah...1,2,4, cross the river, 10 - 12 miles away. Pretty good range for a 38

Gunfighter 08-29-2013 06:56 AM

Because handguns are scary to the sheeepeople .

rwm1273 08-29-2013 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OpenRange (Post 2095761)
I have a restricted license and the only time I get a gun range membership is in the year that I have to renew my PAL because they require a membership in order to renew a restricted. After the first year expires I just leave it and shoot on my place all the time. The only way police or F&W would know if I was shooting on my place is if I called them to report it. I think if you have a big enough place to shoot and everything is clear then frankly it's none of their business what you do with a gun on your own property. I know that's probably illegal what I'm doing but I don't plan on reporting myself.

You just did.

Scott N 08-29-2013 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OpenRange (Post 2095761)
I have a restricted license and the only time I get a gun range membership is in the year that I have to renew my PAL because they require a membership in order to renew a restricted. After the first year expires I just leave it and shoot on my place all the time. The only way police or F&W would know if I was shooting on my place is if I called them to report it. I think if you have a big enough place to shoot and everything is clear then frankly it's none of their business what you do with a gun on your own property. I know that's probably illegal what I'm doing but I don't plan on reporting myself.

What you're doing isn't probably illegal, it's completely illegal. Like you said, as long as you don't get caught, but you do risk losing all of your firearms, forever. I know some guys do this kind of target shooting all of the time though.

A Sittn Duck 08-29-2013 07:28 AM

A small derail but I've got a question. I have my non restricted and restricted PAL, when asked why I wanted restricted, I said for target shooting. Over the years I've accumulatd rifles and shottys but no hand guns. Now my license is up for renewal and I still don't own a restricted firearm nor do I have any membership to a club. Is it a MUST that I apply for a membership to a gun club before they'll allow my renewal? Even though I don't yet own a restricted gun? What do you guys think?

Scott N 08-29-2013 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Sittn Duck (Post 2095841)
A small derail but I've got a question. I have my non restricted and restricted PAL, when asked why I wanted restricted, I said for target shooting. Over the years I've accumulatd rifles and shottys but no hand guns. Now my license is up for renewal and I still don't own a restricted firearm nor do I have any membership to a club. Is it a MUST that I apply for a membership to a gun club before they'll allow my renewal? Even though I don't yet own a restricted gun? What do you guys think?

As far as I know, you only need a club membership to obtain / renew your transport permit. You don't need a club membership to have an RPAL.

hillbillyreefer 08-29-2013 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Sittn Duck (Post 2095841)
A small derail but I've got a question. I have my non restricted and restricted PAL, when asked why I wanted restricted, I said for target shooting. Over the years I've accumulatd rifles and shottys but no hand guns. Now my license is up for renewal and I still don't own a restricted firearm nor do I have any membership to a club. Is it a MUST that I apply for a membership to a gun club before they'll allow my renewal? Even though I don't yet own a restricted gun? What do you guys think?

No you don't need a membership to renew an RPAL, according to the law. The CFO may have arbitrarily created a new rule though. Time to get rid of these empire building pieces of snake feces.

TrollGRG 08-29-2013 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11 (Post 2095577)
The CFOs seem to interpret the rules as they please, and here is the interpretation that they seem to be using.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/restr-eng.htm

Quote:
Target Shooting Practice and Competition

To be authorized to have restricted firearms for target shooting purposes, an individual must provide proof that he or she practices or competes at an approved shooting club or range. For more information about approved shooting clubs and ranges, contact the appropriate provincial or territorial CFO by calling 1-800-731‑4000.


So in order to target shoot on your own property, you would need to have it approved for restricted weapons, and getting your property approved as a restricted range, won't be easy to do.

I know my english "aint no good" but the way I read that statement is that to own the handgun you have to belong to the range. It doesn't say anything about shooting said gun anywhere (e.g. in your back 40).

ergo - if you belong to a club then you can shoot in the field.

flange 08-29-2013 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott N (Post 2095823)
What you're doing isn't probably illegal, it's completely illegal. Like you said, as long as you don't get caught, but you do risk losing all of your firearms, forever. I know some guys do this kind of target shooting all of the time though.

Ok what part of the firearms act declares this ? I don't see a clear cut statement saying its illegal but I wouldn't want to be the test case either.

Scott N 08-29-2013 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flange (Post 2096414)
Ok what part of the firearms act declares this ? I don't see a clear cut statement saying its illegal but I wouldn't want to be the test case either.

I don't have a copy of the firearms act, but I do know that you're only able to legally discharge a restricted firearm at an approved range. If it was legal, you'd hear more people discussing shooting their handguns / ARs on their farms, etc. While I'm sure that happens, it doesn't happen legally.

Still, when in doubt, get your info from the horse's mouth, not from an internet chat board. Call the CFO.... you wouldn't want to pony up your life's saving to hire a lawyer just because you went out target shooting on your own property thinking it was OK to do so.

flange 08-29-2013 05:00 PM

True. But the CFO is interpreting the act quite possibly incorrectly. Their (CFO) discretionary power is far to great. Creating rules that aren't backed up by legislation is plain wrong. But then again I'm sure not wanting to be the test case.

jaylow? 08-29-2013 05:38 PM

i would shoot on my property and i wouldnt think twice about it.

CaberTosser 08-29-2013 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OpenRange (Post 2095761)
I have a restricted license and the only time I get a gun range membership is in the year that I have to renew my PAL because they require a membership in order to renew a restricted. After the first year expires I just leave it and shoot on my place all the time. The only way police or F&W would know if I was shooting on my place is if I called them to report it. I think if you have a big enough place to shoot and everything is clear then frankly it's none of their business what you do with a gun on your own property. I know that's probably illegal what I'm doing but I don't plan on reporting myself.

Yeah, the police never go on the internet to investigate suspicious activity. They especially don't pursue public confessions of crimes that would be as easy as shooting fish in a barrel and perhaps put some shine on their annual performance review. Nobody has ever been tracked down through their IP address either :thinking-006:




Yes, that was sarcasm

Battle Rat 08-29-2013 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaylow? (Post 2096576)
i would shoot on my property and i wouldnt think twice about it.

X2, I've yet to meet a land owner that doesn't shoot his pistol on his own land.
If all you own is 5 acres along HWY 2 then you might not want to.
Unless you are commiting a real crime the local RCMP have better things to do.
If you have a history of criminal activety that would be different.
If your a worry wart type that's scared of your own shadow then don't do it.

Scott N 08-29-2013 07:04 PM

What ever anyone's opinion is on this topic, it's probably not a good idea to tell someone to break a law where if by chance the authorities know about it, the consequences could be severe. It's not legal, judge the risk, and decide if the chance is worth it.

JustBen 08-29-2013 07:41 PM

I find it hard to believe that people would be so foolish to openly post on the forum that they routinely break the law. But life is stranger than fiction...

jaylow? 08-29-2013 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustBen (Post 2096703)
I find it hard to believe that people would be so foolish to openly post on the forum that they routinely break the law. But life is stranger than fiction...

:lol:

Lefty-Canuck 08-29-2013 08:06 PM

Here is a post of mine from another thread...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck (Post 1865587)
This is the form letter you will get..if you own restricteds and want to renew an RPAL and do not send in a proof of membership at time of renewal....and no where do they flat out tell you to provide it, so it just causes you more delays...

Here is the letter I received in respects to having a range membership before they would issue me my RPAL....

NOTICE WHERE IT SAYS..."Failure to respond to this notice may result in the rejection of your license application"

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/...0203-00217.jpg

Have a read.....basically they are saying I NEED to have a range membership....this is what I got from the letter, correct me if I am wrong.

LC


BisonSW 08-29-2013 08:13 PM

First. I would like go see some a case where someone was charged for shooting restricted on there property................ That's because it has not happened. Second the law does not clearly say you can not shoot restricted on your own property it is a interpretation of the law. I have talked to many RCMP as well police officers and each and every one said you can shoot what you want on your own property or they did not know.
Fact is everyone on here listens to everyone else without even picking up the phone and asking the CFO himself.

After reading this I am going to call them in the morning. Apparently the CFO has a letter out saying you are allowed to shoot restricted on your own property as long as it is being done in a safe manner.

elkhunter11 08-29-2013 08:19 PM

Quote:

Apparently the CFO has a letter out saying you are allowed to shoot restricted on your own property as long as it is being done in a safe manner.
If such a letter does actually exist, please provide a link, or a copy showing it to be genuine, as many people would like to see it.

TrollGRG 08-29-2013 08:43 PM

Again I point out the the laws quoted most often are for possession and transportation of the firearm NOT shooting it. If you are a member of a range then you have the authority to own the firearm. If you don't have to go off your property then you are not transporting it.

Having said that, you may be able to win a legal action after several thousands of dollars in legal fees. Not my style.

nof60 08-31-2013 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott N (Post 2095823)
What you're doing isn't probably illegal, it's completely illegal. Like you said, as long as you don't get caught, but you do risk losing all of your firearms, forever. I know some guys do this kind of target shooting all of the time though.

Again, please show me the exact legislation that makes this illegle.


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