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-   -   Rules re discharge of a shotgun along a roadway (http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=369332)

osterous 09-12-2019 10:31 AM

Rules re discharge of a shotgun along a roadway
 
Yesterday I was told by a F&W officer that it was illegal to discharge a shotgun
along a roadway. Regs (page 28 #9b) says I can. This was along the Powderface Trail that runs between HWY 68 and HWY 66 west of Calgary.
Now, I searched both the Wildlife Act and the HWY Safety Act (and probably missed) for the actual legal wording of this rule. I know that I can do it but I would love to have a copy of the legal text.
Can anyone provide me with the legal source?
Thanks
Roger

elkhunter11 09-12-2019 10:50 AM

The Wildlife Act is the provincial legislation that regulates this, but you also need to check the county bylaws, as the county can impose restrictions within the county.

coyoteman 09-12-2019 11:03 AM

Road shooting
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by osterous (Post 4025924)
Yesterday I was told by a F&W officer that it was illegal to discharge a shotgun
along a roadway. Regs (page 28 #9b) says I can. This was along the Powderface Trail that runs between HWY 68 and HWY 66 west of Calgary.
Now, I searched both the Wildlife Act and the HWY Safety Act (and probably missed) for the actual legal wording of this rule. I know that I can do it but I would love to have a copy of the legal text.
Can anyone provide me with the legal source?
Thanks
Roger

Just for the record,a warden told me a couple of days ago,you can walk, and shoot phesants on the road at Hopewell release site.The gentlemans name Dan Visser.403-934-3422.

bonedogg 09-12-2019 11:46 AM

is it a labeled road corridor?

urban rednek 09-12-2019 11:47 AM

Actual rule? Or more confusion courtesy of F&W employees?
 
You have already identified the appropriate section of the 2019 Alberta Hunting Regulations that allows for a shotgun to be discharged from a roadway while hunting game birds.
The F&W officer may have been referencing the No Firearm Discharge within 1km of a trail that has been in force in the McLean Creek area for a few years. I had not heard that this restriction has been extended to other areas of Kananaskis Country. A quick scan of the Alberta Parks website does not support the officers claim, unless specific signage is in place as per the April 16, 2016 Public Advisory:
Quote:

Public AdvisoryOperationsOct 23, 2017Firearm Use Restriction -PLUZ© 2017Government of AlbertaPage 1of 1Notice: McLean Creek and Kananaskis Public Land Use Zones Firearm Use Restriction Area
Effective: April 15, 2016
Per section 181 and 182 of the Public Lands Administration Regulation(PLAR), an officer may direct, by placing signs or notices, a person to refrain from doing anything that may be considered dangerous or detrimental to the management of the public land use zone.
The safe discharge of a firearm (per PLAR sec. 188(2))for purposes other than legal licensed hunting upon public land is permitted “outside” the restricted one kilometer zone perimeter polygon.
The restricted firearm use polygon replicates the current existing“No Camping and No Open Fires”polygon. The polygon is applicable to a distance of one kilometer both sides of the road commencing at road center.
The No Open Fires and No Campingpolygon boundary exists unchanged since the establishment of the McLean Creek and Kananaskis Public Land Use Zones (PLUZ) and is available as a standard map layer to Albertans.
In addition to Firearm use Restriction signage, notices will be posted on PLUZ information kiosks and on the Alberta Environment and Parks website. The McLean Creek and Kananaskis PLUZ maps arereadily available online, at information kiosks and from local AEP offices.
Here is the link :
https://www.alberta.ca/assets/docume...Oct23-2017.pdf
The .pdf page includes a link to the .pdf map that shows the firearms discharge restriction on the McLean Creek Trail area.

Good Luck. Let us know what you find out.

teberle 09-12-2019 02:04 PM

Can the OP give some more context? Did your conversation with the officer explicitly concern firing the shotgun WHILE hunting game birds? Did he write you a ticket? As for the 1 km 'no shooting' zones out there, the signs they have up specifically state 'except for legally authorized hunting purposes.' And no, there's no wildlife corridor along that road.

SteezySmiley 09-12-2019 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osterous (Post 4025924)
Powderface Trail that runs between HWY 68 and HWY 66 west of Calgary.

Roger

I've often wondered if I could hunt that road as it's right on the boundary. Did he say you COULD hunt there, just not on the road?

teberle 09-12-2019 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteezySmiley (Post 4026015)
I've often wondered if I could hunt that road as it's right on the boundary. Did he say you COULD hunt there, just not on the road?

Which boundary are you referring to?

osterous 09-12-2019 03:09 PM

A bit more context.
Actually, he was very friendly and sociable. No ticket or charges. Really just information. I was just starting up the Powderface from HWY 68 and he came behind me and pulled alongside. And we started talking. That was when he informed me about the hunting restriction i.e. no shooting within a mile of the road. And yes, he knew I was looking for grouse and that I had a 20 ga.
Right now I am trying to touch base with someone from Public Lands to clarify the status of the Powderface. I know that it not a restricted road, I just want a legal confirmation of that fact.
I also appreciate the responses.
Thanks
Roger

teberle 09-12-2019 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osterous (Post 4026032)
A bit more context.
Actually, he was very friendly and sociable. No ticket or charges. Really just information. I was just starting up the Powderface from HWY 68 and he came behind me and pulled alongside. And we started talking. That was when he informed me about the hunting restriction i.e. no shooting within a mile of the road. And yes, he knew I was looking for grouse and that I had a 20 ga.
Right now I am trying to touch base with someone from Public Lands to clarify the status of the Powderface. I know that it not a restricted road, I just want a legal confirmation of that fact.
I also appreciate the responses.
Thanks
Roger

Well if he referred to it as a hunting restriction, he was certainly confused. It's a little disconcerting to know there are f&w guys out there who don't know the rules. I wonder if the same guy is out there charging people and seizing their guns for nothing.

SteezySmiley 09-13-2019 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teberle (Post 4026016)
Which boundary are you referring to?

Peter Lougheed Provincial Park is 500m to the west from the road.

KrisRD 09-13-2019 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteezySmiley (Post 4026442)
Peter Lougheed Provincial Park is 500m to the west from the road.

Not from powderface trail. Peter Lougheed PP is still quite far west.

kerthump 09-13-2019 01:04 PM

North end of Powderface (near 68) is posted "No Firearms"
 
Signs were put up a few years ago just before the Homestead public range closed. They were put up to manage the displaced shooters from the public range, to keep them off the open meadows, and away from other land users. There are other areas further south to shoot that are less likely to bother other users, no signs there.

I know there is no camping within 1 km of the road, but never heard of a 1 km no shooting rule. But bear in mind the CO can evict you from Crown land for 72 hours for almost any reason, disturbing other users might be one.

osterous 09-13-2019 08:23 PM

Additional clarification or confusion (take your pick)
 
This morning I received this message from a Public Lands Officer, South Sask region:
"With respect to Powderface Road - General Regulations 9(a) apply as this is a road held by Alberta transportation under RDS 780104 who maintain it."
My reading? I need to walk 20 feet in before taking a shot. Well, at least it's not a mile!
Appreciated the comments.
Thanks
Roger

walking buffalo 09-13-2019 09:26 PM

Well done Roger.

Thanks for making the effort to get legal clarification.

Now to ensure that the officers are educated on the law so no one else has their legal hunt disrupted due to official ignorance.
I sure hope you have his name. :)

triguy 09-14-2019 08:02 AM

kananaskis
 
Many of the officers are park rangers and are not up to speed on all the regs for hunting and shooting and even the boundaries. there are many in K-country. Just know you stuff when in the area Most are very friendly and encounters like yours are informative.

urban rednek 09-14-2019 11:26 AM

Additional clarification or confusion (take your pick)
 
Thank you for following up on this and posting the official response from the Public Lands Officer.
In keeping with "clarification or confusion" theme we have going here, I would question their designation of the Powderface Road as RDS 780104. I found this in the "Elbow-Sheep Wildland Provincial Park Management Plan, September 1998" document:
Quote:

4.6.2 Access/roads/trails/reclamation
In addition to Highway 40, there is an old forestry road right- of- way in the park (Alberta Transportation RDS 780104); however it has been closed by policy to unauthorized motorized use since 1979. It parallels the Little Elbow and Sheep Rivers and is now used primarily for hiking, mountain biking and horseback riding.
Link to full .pdf document here: https://www.albertaparks.ca/media/27...p_mngtplan.pdf

Since Powderface Road was clearly in use for motorized travel prior to 1998, and does not match the location described in the 1998 government document, I would question the validity of the response you received. Because I'm like that when evaluating conflicting information. :sign0161:
In case anyone is curious about the RDS (Provisonal Roadway Reservation) designation, here is a link to the 2013 document: https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/4ac8...2013-05-13.pdf

Until further information is made available, I agree with your assessment of the 20' rule.

teberle 09-14-2019 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteezySmiley (Post 4026442)
Peter Lougheed Provincial Park is 500m to the west from the road.

You're thinking of a different road. The one the OP is talking about is this one:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Po...4d-114.8906712

walking buffalo 09-14-2019 12:01 PM

Redneck,

They don't match because that is a different "road".
The "old" one goes from Little Elbow Campground south bound and comes out at Sheep River PP.
Firearm discharge is allowed on this trail except for where it crosses private land on the Sheep.

Diligence 10-10-2019 01:23 PM

I have to ask the question; isn't an RDS an "active disposition" as it is issued under the Public Lands Act...which then would allow the use of shotguns while hunting upland game.....

....now I am completely confused.

D

Quote:

Originally Posted by osterous (Post 4026611)
This morning I received this message from a Public Lands Officer, South Sask region:
"With respect to Powderface Road - General Regulations 9(a) apply as this is a road held by Alberta transportation under RDS 780104 who maintain it."
My reading? I need to walk 20 feet in before taking a shot. Well, at least it's not a mile!
Appreciated the comments.
Thanks
Roger


SteezySmiley 10-11-2019 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teberle (Post 4026793)
You're thinking of a different road. The one the OP is talking about is this one:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Po...4d-114.8906712


Same road, further down on the south where it connects with HWY 66.

Here's the point where it's roughly 500m from the park:

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Pow...4d-114.9104521

precloading 10-11-2019 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerthump (Post 4026458)
Signs were put up a few years ago just before the Homestead public range closed. They were put up to manage the displaced shooters from the public range, to keep them off the open meadows, and away from other land users. There are other areas further south to shoot that are less likely to bother other users, no signs there.

I know there is no camping within 1 km of the road, but never heard of a 1 km no shooting rule. But bear in mind the CO can evict you from Crown land for 72 hours for almost any reason, disturbing other users might be one.

Signs now include No recreational shooting within 1 km. That does not apply though if you have a hunting license and are in the act of lawfully hunting.

buckman 10-11-2019 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by precloading (Post 4038256)
Signs now include No recreational shooting within 1 km. That does not apply though if you have a hunting license and are in the act of lawfully hunting.

You are correct no target shooting. You can shoot at game if you are off the road or trail.I believe its 32 ft from the center line or past the ditch if one is present.

robson3954 10-11-2019 09:20 PM

I personally feel their response is incorrect. Unless powderface trail had a previous designation of a secondary hwy (I’m sure it wasn’t) then it should fall under 9 (b). Things like hwy 68 are obviously off limits obviously.

Diligence 10-21-2019 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robson3954 (Post 4038418)
I personally feel their response is incorrect. Unless powderface trail had a previous designation of a secondary hwy (I’m sure it wasn’t) then it should fall under 9 (b). Things like hwy 68 are obviously off limits obviously.

I agree with you, and did have a discussion with a local Foothills/Calgary Conservation Officer last week. He confirmed for me that Powderface is not considered a "road" in the sense that would prohibit the discharge of a shotgun while upland hunting. In other words 9(B) applies and permits upland shotgun hunting.

So now we have two different sources, each saying something different. Go figure, isn't that always the case.......

As for me, I'm going to continue to hunt Powderface with a shotgun, although I rarely do....

YMMV.
D


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