Furnace repair - igniter and flame sensor
 

Hi guys - this weekend we needed some furnace help, turned out to be fairly basic as the igniter was failing. Had two parts installed (if igniter and flame.e sensor, now its running like a top).

Service was good from who we went with but wow did the price of the parts seem astronomically high. I won't touch HVAC stuff as I have no training, but I know what those 2 parts are and what they do, and you can find them online easily with the part numbers, and inexpensive.

My question is, is it normal for an HVAC company to do a huge markup on these things? Labour and cal out fee were reasonable, but a 800% on a flame sensor seems crazy. If that's the price of business for a repair service then I'll let it go, hoping industry guys could chime in

I didnt say anything at the time because we were stressed and my wife really wanted the furnace running again

Not sure what prices you saw popping up online or what you were charged, but I’d agree that 800% is highway robbery.

Some shops run flat rate pricing programs and have a big database of what to charge for all manner of jobs. These prices generally give them a handsome profit even in worst-case scenarios. Not sure how it works for repeat clients though.... perhaps some are just scared of finding a company that charges even more and stay with the ‘devil’ they know?? Generally speaking, the bigger the advertising program and the louder the truck signage, the more you’ll be paying.

Hvac wholesalers on weekends and holidays have a pretty heafty charge to unlock.

Also, if you want me to drive around with a part in my truck for 2 years waiting for the day you call, yup I'd mark it up to obscene.

As I stated, the other side would have been paying him travel to the wholesalers, time and wholesaler weekend charge.

What would you charge to do specialty work on family day Monday?

He said labour and call out fee was reasonable. He said the issue was with the markup fees. ARPI's sells parts to individuals if you ever want to price it out. They admitted their HVAC guys put on a significant markup. Just use Caber Tosser and your good to go!

For small consumables... net x tax x 2 = list. Anything more is unethical.

Sneeze has a point on the possible fees for a wholesaler to open up on OT if the needed repair parts aren’t in the techs van inventory. Most plumbing and HVAC wholesalers will ding for what amounts to another minimum service call for their on-call staffer to drive in and open up.

With so many different brands and models of heating equipment one can’t realistically carry parts for everything. I also do boilers so I need to carry some parts for those, circulators, etc. Experience gives techs an idea of what’s best to keep in stock and what would be waste of money to just have taking up space and making their vehicle unnecessarily heavy. A universal fan motor and a handful of assorted igniters and flame sensors gets most out of the woods, perhaps a universal ignition control as well. Beyond that it’s just cash flow tied up in inventory. Unless a tech has clients with a lot of the same equipment (townhomes and condos for instance) its kind of unusual to carry parts for specific models.

Don't read into my post too much. I paid high for labour and travel, and am fine with it because it should be. But, a flame sensor is a common item that costs 20 to 30 bucks and I was charged $280. I don't give two craps what day of the week or holiday it is it doesn't make a cheap part cost that much

Order a handful of flame sensors off amazon. They are easy to replace.
20$ a piece. $280.... you were ripped off.

As Caber and Sneeze mentioned. This may be the parts store having a minimum charge of $200 just to open the shop on weekends or holidays. Robbery for a $30 part but may not be the HVAC guy. But if he had the part in his truck which it sounds like he did, then there was no shop involved.

Yes, he had the sensor and igniter in his truck since last weekend, he even mentioned he was glad he stocked up. The change for the igniter was $379 and 280 for the sensor he already had

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Just go with Caber next time. He won't bend you over the furnace like the last fella did!

Yeah no kidding. We were in a panick as we had no heat, and my wife does childcare so we had to get thr first person in we could on Monday. Unreal

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No kidding.

And yes, the guy had his van stocked with sensors and ignites, he told me he'd been driving them around last week, did not have to open up shop for stock

It has been a busy cold spell, when every heating tech is booked it’s like hailing a cab on New Years Eve, any port in a storm.

I'm sorry but that's no excuse for ripping people off.

In no way did I suggest that it was an excuse. I suggested that when people cannot get their regular trusted heating techs in the time frame they want (when its below -30, that's generally accepted as yesterday), they might choose to resort to a contractor unfamiliar to them who might price rather aggressively. I'm not excusing predatory pricing, I'm simply noting that the entire heating industry is very busy during such weather conditions. There no downside to asking about pricing before calling the tech out though, of course at that point parts costs would be an unknown, but you can get an idea by their labor rates or ask for their price on a common part.... Of course there is also the risk of those with too low of a labor rate where they may be any or all of the following: unqualified, un-insured, no business licence, incompetent, non-taxpaying, taillight warranty (warranty expires when you can no longer see their taillights), etc.

Personally, I'm just having breakfast now and off to a slightly leisurely start due to working until 10pm last night......

You didn't pay for a flame sensor. You paid for the experience, foresight and ambition to have one on his truck in front of your house on holiday Monday in -25 weather.

I love it. Entrapenuership. I don't expect bottled water at the corner store by my house to be the same price as at Costco. If I was in the middle of nowhere in a bind for water I wouldn't tell the only guy out there selling it I can get it
Cheaper at Costco.

Ya but he guaranteed he won’t be used again nor will he get a reference to the OP’s friends. Willing to bet he could have made lots more out of referrals then he will this way. There is a reason some guys are busy every day and others are only busy on holidays. Taking advantage of someone in need isn’t being an entrepreneur it’s being crooked and I doubt his business will last long. Treat a person right and you got the job for life. Treat them wrong and you won’t be seen again. Separates the guys in it for a career and those in it for a job.

And I highly doubt you would pay $10 for a $1 bottle of water unless you were desperate. It’s like selling the $1 bottle of water for $3 then realizing you need a bottle opener and having to pay $10 for the $1 opener or you can’t drink the water.

If the part is cheaper on Amazon, you should have bought it on Amazon.
Why didn't you?

Dude. Been through this a dozen times with my rentals. They will SCREW YOU as they know you will pay anything to get it fixed. I used to get a flame sensor replacement all in for about 250$. As it was a write off, I'd pay it every other year. Last one was just south of 500$. Time for plan b.

Now, I get my resident handyman to google furnace make, number, flame sensor number ( usually right on it) go to a wholesaler( bout 20 $) and install a new one beginning of every season. Takes about 15 minutes. You tube it.

Read the thread. Another guy quoted a price on amazon. Amazon doesn’t have same day delivery. Everyone should just order a back up one and have it ready as they are a common part to fail.

He was being sarcastic. He's getting to the fact that some people want their cake and to eat it too. Heating techs have to make a living so there has to be at least a reasonable profit margin, we're not wealthy philanthropists after all. Some things may be explained by asking how often people undertake maintenance on their heating equipment: do they have preventive maintenance performed or do they only call a professional in to fix things when its broken?

Lots of 'emergency' heating calls are very similar to summer road trip mechanical breakdowns on the vehicle that's got different air pressure in every bald tire, fluids that haven't been checked since Paul Martin was PM, brake pads at their wear indicators and ball joints that are looser than Maggie Trudeau. These people think their holiday breakdown was an unfortunate surprise, but any mechanic could see the obvious neglect.

Professional commercial landlords have preventive maintenance schedules on their buildings for a reason: damage from neglect can cause greater expense than the 'ounce of prevention' in preventive maintenance would have cost.

I'm speaking in general terms here, not towards anyone in particular. I'm just saying that preventive maintenance can have things noticed and corrected before they leave a household in dire need. Main blower or venter motors can be checked for how much amperage they're drawing and fixed before you take that tropical holiday during a cold spell. Igniters that are about to putz out can often be recognized visually and replaced pre-emptively. Flame sensors can be changed as a maintenance item or if you're still rocking an older appliance with a pilot light it might want the pilot burner removed & cleaned and a new thermocouple installed. Bearings, belts, circulators, zone valves, filters, air vents, corrosion inhibitors, etc. Buildings are machines and maintenance helps prevent unpleasant surprises.

I get what you are saying but making $1000 on what I am guessing was a 4 hour day is robbery. Quoting labour on par and 10x parts is more than just eating the cake. Paying 2x on labour for holidays and actual price for parts plus 10-20% or so would make sense to me.
Taxi drivers need to make money too. Charging 5x on a -40 New Years Eve and finding out when you got half way home wouldn’t make me too happy!

My outlook differs a bit I guess. I buy a pile of equipment and use a pile of services for work. You can bet that if one was to gouge me when I need them they wouldn’t be back on one of my leases. But look after me during a time of need and they are the first call the next time. We all need to eat. Don’t steal my supper and I won’t steal yours.

In our town service techs are expensive. I have ceased calling and do all my own repairs. I had one furnace service tech attempt to screw me once. Let's just say it didn't end up the way he expected.

I change the flame sensor myself , but if it's a problem I can't handle , I call Atco gas. They fixed me for free or minimal charge a few times or told me what to do myself.

To add insult to injury. In most cases the flame rod just needs to be pulled out and cleaned with light steel wool or scotch bright. I would say 1 in 50 actually needs to be replaced. In most cases hsi igniters either glow and work or are dead and do not come on. There are a few that will come on 1/2 way or so before they fail but are rare.