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Why many people are disgruntled with APOS

Lots of talk on another thread about outfitters. Discussion morphed into some members, myself included, expressing a lack of respect for APOS as a governing body when they do little or nothing to members, even a sitting president, when they were convicted of wildlife offences in a court of law. I thought I would give a bit of background, as a few people wondered why the disdain for APOS. Anyhow, here is the text of a story from the Edmonton Journal concerning a sitting president of APOS being convicted of poaching, and still maintaining the presidency of the organization. Stuff like this soils the reputation of the good guys too...

President of Alberta outfitters’ group survives ouster bid after unlawful killing of black bear

DAVID HOWELL
More from David Howell
Published on: August 27, 2015 | Last Updated: August 27, 2015 10:24 AM

EDMONTON – The president of the Alberta Professional Outfitters Society survived an internal bid to have him ousted after questions surfaced about his role in the unlawful killing of a black bear.

Months later, some society members remain upset that Glenn Brown is still president.

“Lots of people are so disgusted with the whole thing that we want out,” said Chris Franke, an outfitter and guide based in Hinton who helped the effort to remove Brown.

Brown’s presidency was challenged June 20 at the society’s annual general meeting in Nisku. Brown, 55, of Three Hills, faced a motion to “immediately remove” him. It was defeated 33-51.

Brown and Blue Bronna Holdings Ltd., a company he owns with his wife, had each been charged under the Wildlife Act with providing false or misleading information. Each charge carried a maximum possible fine of $50,000.

The charge against Brown was withdrawn in May 2013, one month after Blue Bronna was convicted and paid a $400 fine.

The case dated back to October 2010, according to a wildlife officer’s enforcement action report.

Brown was providing outfitting and guiding services to a Mississippi woman. She shot and killed a black bear near Blairmore but another bear was in the same location.

The report said Brown shot the second bear and later bought a hunting licence in the name of a Mississippi man. The man was in Alberta with Brown’s client but had not been part of the hunt.

The report said Brown used the tag for the second bear, an “unlawful” act. Hunters must hold a valid licence while hunting and can only tag wildlife they kill themselves.

The report said Brown gave a statement in which he said the woman wanted to keep the second bear. He said he tagged it “to expedite the export process to Mississippi.”

Brown had both bears taken to a Calgary taxidermist, the report said. On July 4, 2012, the taxidermist applied for an Alberta export permit using licence numbers Brown had provided. July 4, 2012 is listed as the date of the offence.

Brown addressed the issue at the APOS meeting in Nisku. The Journal obtained a recording of the meeting.

Brown told the meeting that after his client shot the first bear, “the other one wouldn’t go away.” He said he decided to shoot it “because I had a tag in my backpack.”

He said he considered having his client fire him before he killed the second bear because it’s illegal to hunt while guiding. But he decided to shoot the second bear.

“At the end of the day, it’s the wrong thing,” he told the meeting. “There’s wrong and there’s right and you don’t get to shoot a bear when you’re guiding.”

Brown said he talked to Fish and Wildlife and agreed to take a penalty for hunting while guiding. But instead he found himself charged with making a false statement. “I finally agreed to it because for $400 it just wasn’t worth anything,” he told the meeting.

Blue Bronna also paid a $2,000 fine in 2014 for trespassing. Brown had been guiding two American hunters near Red Deer. One killed a white-tailed deer. Brown didn’t have permission to be on the land.

Brown was elected APOS president in 2012 and re-elected in 2014. For months leading up to the annual meeting, some members were trying to find out if he had disclosed the convictions when he sought to renew his presidency.

Kelly Semple, an APOS vice-president, told the Nisku meeting the board had looked into it.

“In the process, that was identified as a problem,” Semple said. “Glenn thought he had disclosed it. We had no evidence that he did or he didn’t.”

The board ruled Brown had violated the society’s code of conduct and issued a letter of censure, Semple said.

In an interview, Brown suggested he has been a target for disgruntled APOS members who have other issues with the organization.

“There are people that want to cause problems, who feel ‘OK, we can move things by slamming somebody,’ that kind of thing.” he said. “That doesn’t help us a bit.”

dhowell@edmontonjournal.com

twitter.com/HowellEJ

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WHAT IS APOS?

The Alberta Professional Outfitters Society is responsible for managing the outfitting industry in Alberta on behalf of the provincial government.

More than 400 member outfitter-guides and about 1,500 guides are registered through the society. About 80 per cent of their clients come from the United States.

APOS issues outfitter-guide permits, collects fees from members, and manages the allocation of big-game and bird-game resources.

The society holds outfitter-guides to ethical standards and codes of conduct, and reviews incidents in which charges are laid under the Wildlife Act.

A recent report put the outfitting industry’s economic impact in Alberta at $105 million per year.

As well, one of the most convicted poachers in Alberta is still allowed to be a member of APOS and is still allowed to continue outfitting. He has also been convicted of Criminal Act violations that took place while outfitting.

From issues of the Alberta Game Warden Magazine.

Quote:

Outfitter caught baiting: Vegreville District

A Lloydminster man’s illegal activity came to a halt after Fish and Wildlife officers located a client hunting over a pile of bait. On Mar. 1, 2005 Lloyd A. McMahon, 54, of Lloydminster, Saskatchewan was convicted on the charge of setting out prohibited items (bait) as specified to hunt big game. As a result, McMahon was handed a $12,500 fine and a seized hunting stand was ordered forfeited to the Crown. This judgement arose as a result of trial on Jan. 18, 2005. On Nov. 24, 2003 Vegreville and Vermillion Fish and Wildlife officers were working in an area southeast of Two Hills. A foot patrol into property in the area found a non-resident alien hunter that was hunting white-tailed deer from a stand. The stand was overlooking a pile of bait found about 150 metres away. The bait consisted of oats and peas recently placed there that would naturally attract deer. The property the non-alien resident was hunting on was native bush and parkland with no areas broken up for cropland or pasture. The stand and bait was located in a dried up slough bottom. A trail had been cleared through the bush from the main access road to get to the slough and stand. The trail that provided access to this location was beyond a locked gate and was also posted to keep people out. The client provided his co-operation by advising, in a statement, his activity and knowledge of the bait and licensing arrangements to hunt deer in Alberta. Further investigation revealed that the property was owned by McMahon and that his company had contracted the hunt with the non-resident alien. A search warrant was executed on the property the following day. The stand was dismantled, seized and ordered forfeited.

Quote:

The matter of outfitter Lloyd McMahon and his company, Great White Holdings, has been concluded. The last update that appeared in this magazine involved McMahon’s appeal of the convictions. In summary, the Court of Appeal found the company, Great White Holdings, guilty on three counts of hunting wildlife without a licence, one count of illegal possession of wildlife and two counts of indictable fraud under the Criminal Code. The court also upheld the convictions of Lloyd McMahon, finding him guilty on two counts of hunting wildlife without a licence, one count of illegal possession of wildlife and two counts of indictable fraud under the Criminal Code. The court sent back five Wildlife Act counts for retrial. The Special Prosecutions Branch elected not to retry the company on these counts and those convictions have been quashed or set aside.

The next appeal launched by McMahon involved the penalties that were imposed. The Court of Appeal ruled on those on May 31, 2005. The specifics of the appeal may be viewed at:www.albertacourts.ab.ca/jdb/2003-/ca/criminal/ 2005/2005abca0188.pdf

The final results of the monetary penalties are as follows: Great White Holdings was assessed fines of $4,600 per count (three counts) involving hunting wildlife without a licence, $1,150 for one count of illegal possession of wildlife and $2,500 per count (two counts) for the fraud convictions. A total of $19,950 in penalties were assessed against the company.

McMahon was handed fines of $4,600 per count (two counts) involving hunting wildlife without a licence, $1,150 for one count of illegal possession of wildlife and $2,500 per count (two counts) for the fraud convictions. Total fines of $15,350 were assessed against McMahon.

http://tucsoncitizen.com/morgue2/199...nting-scandal/

Quote:

Man’s arrest ends bizarre illegal hunting scandal

by Bill Quimby on Feb 10, 1995, under Outdoors

NOTE:

A mechanical problem that forced an airliner returning from New Zealand to make an unscheduled stop in Hawaii last May resulted in the arrest of a man who had been a fugitive for eight years.

It also allowed the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to add a postscript to a bizarre illegal hunting case.

A federal wildlife law enforcement agent said the case began in late 1983, when Canadian hunting outfitter Lloyd Alexander McMahon agreed to guide William Mark Day, an American, to a trophy white-tailed deer in Canada for $20,000.

The legal hunt was canceled before it could take place, the agent said last week at a hunters’ convention in Las Vegas.

A few weeks later, on Dec. 4, 1983, six sets of deer antlers – including one from a record-class whitetail – were stolen in a burglary at a taxidermy shop in Edmonton, Alberta.

The agent said McMahon already was being investigated by U.S. and Canadian wildlife authorities who suspected him of illegally hunting from airplanes, out of season and in closed areas. The agent said McMahon became a suspect in the Edmonton burglary when it was learned he had seen the antlers in the shop before the break-in.

Day later told investigators that a few weeks after the burglary, McMahon told him he had killed a deer whose antlers would qualify for the Boone and Crockett Club’s record book, and that he had offered to sell them for $20,000. Day said McMahon offered to take the antlers to Mexico and arrange a “hunt’ on a ranch owned by his friend, George Vogt.

On Jan. 23, 1984, McMahon and Vogt’s foreman killed two white-tailed deer in Mexico. The next day, McMahon and Day mounted the stolen Canadian antlers on the head of one of the deer and took pictures of themselves posing with Vogt and what seemed like a recently killed, record-class buck.

Day told investigators the photographs were needed to “prove’ the Canadian antlers had been grown by the deer killed on Vogt’s ranch, allowing Day’s name to be entered into the record book.

The antlers then were transported across the border into Texas, where a taxidermist mounted them on the Mexican deer’s head. They later were used in ads and entered into contests.

The publicity the record-book deer generated soon reached Alberta, where the Edmonton taxidermist recognized the antlers in the photographs that Day and McMahon had taken in Mexico as one of the six sets stolen from his shop in Canada.

On Aug. 7, 1985, McMahon was arrested in Texas, and charged with interstate transportation of stolen property. The trial date was set for 10 months later and he was released on a $50,000 bond.

In April 1986, Vogt and Day confessed to one count each of violating the Lacey Act – the federal law that makes it a felony to cross state or international borders to violate wildlife laws. They each were fined $20,000, sentenced to 500 hours hours of community service and placed on probation for five years.

Vogt and Day also forfeited their vehicles and agreed to testify against McMahon.

Hearing this, McMahon went into hiding. When he failed to appear for his trial in June 1986, a warrant was issued for his arrest. He remained a fugitive until he was spotted and arrested at the airport in Hawaii last year, the agent said.

Last October, McMahon pleaded guilty in Texas to violating the Lacey Act. He was sentenced to two years in federal prison and fined $5,000.

I don't know whether APOS are wonderful or evil incarnate. But the problem with them is the same as with a few other quasi-governmental bodies. They are both the regulator and the industry cheerleader. Those two functions need to be split. Imagine if it were up to the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers to investigate oil spills and determine penalties....

They don't represent you so what do you care?
Start at the afga...:scared0018:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter (Post 3489363)

They don't represent you so what do you care?
Start at the afga...:scared0018:

Whether APOS represents resident hunters or not, they do effect hunting opportunities for resident hunters in Alberta, which should be enough incentive for all resident hunters to care.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11 (Post 3489335)

That's some kind of special

just speaking out loud

Quote:

Why many people are disgruntled with APOS

well i dont follow them as life is to short for me so no i am not disgruntled if something is wrong let the gov handle it :mad0100:i have no say .

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11 (Post 3489367)

Whether APOS represents resident hunters or not, they do effect hunting opportunities for resident hunters in Alberta, which should be enough incentive for all resident hunters to care.

Quote:

Originally Posted by last minute (Post 3489409)

well i dont follow them as life is to short for me so no i am not disgruntled if something is wrong let the gov handle it :mad0100:i have no say .

You had enough to say to leave that comment :)

I don't know what the dig dust up is about apos? Two names were mentioned to be undesirable out of how many members and that makes them all bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta (Post 3489423)

I don't know what the dig dust up is about apos? Two names were mentioned to be undesirable out of how many members and that makes them all bad.

One of those mention survived an impeachment vote, I'd say the majority of those at the meeting are of questionable character.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta (Post 3489423)

I don't know what the dig dust up is about apos? Two names were mentioned to be undesirable out of how many members and that makes them all bad.

Two names in particular were mentioned, because one had such a lengthy record, and the other was a president of APOS. A quick search online will turn up several more convictiiins of outfitters. And the fact that over 50 members voted to keep a convicted offender as president , brings the ethics of those 50+ members into question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11 (Post 3489367)

Whether APOS represents resident hunters or not, they do effect hunting opportunities for resident hunters in Alberta, which should be enough incentive for all resident hunters to care.

3x... it's all about money.

You guys put it that way makes a lot of sense. The old adage birds of a feather flock together.

APOS The society holds outfitter-guides to ethical standards and codes of conduct, and reviews incidents in which charges are laid under the wildlife act. This statement is total B.S. APOS seems to almost support these individuals who can't adhere to the laws in place. Outfitting in general needs to be cleaned up in this province. I personally know about a dozen guides and outfitters and over half of them are convicted with wildlife crimes and the other half have just not been caught yet .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta (Post 3489423)

I don't know what the dig dust up is about apos? Two names were mentioned to be undesirable out of how many members and that makes them all bad.

I could name four more that I know who have numerous convictions for hunting violations.

The outfitters I know of who have been convicted of wildlife violations are;

Dollard Dalaire, Rudy Sunkle, Garry Checknita, Pat Garrett, Chris Brophy, Cody Allan Cassidy, Michel Blanchett, Blake Shmyr, and there are others.

I have only met the first two.There are two others who are from this area but I have not met so far as I know.

Then there is Chris Gerritse and his kind.

There are 484 licensed Alberta Outfitters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KegRiver (Post 3489704)

You can add John Cassidy and Skip Selk to that list.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11 (Post 3489502)

And the fact that over 50 members voted to keep a convicted offender as president , brings the ethics of those 50+ members into question.

I totally agree with this statement.

I believe there are good hard working ethical outfitters out there in Alberta but then there are the un-ethical ones !!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice Fishing Maniac (Post 3489725)

I totally agree with this statement.

I believe there are good hard working ethical outfitters out there in Alberta but then there are the un-ethical ones !!

61% as it seems, probably more.

Wow! Seems like old Lloyd is making too much money with his outfitting if he's still ahead of the game even after all the fines assessed to him, either he's a slow learner, or the profits outweigh the fines.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LKILR (Post 3489684)

I agree totality once convicted and fined said person loses guiding writes for at least 5 years :argue2:

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11 (Post 3489719)

You can add John Cassidy and Skip Selk to that list.

What did old John Cassidy do ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel (Post 3489833)

What did old John Cassidy do ?

Baiting mule deer. It was quite a few years ago. I hunted cougar with him back then, and I actually wasn't surprised to read about his conviction in the Alberta Game Warden magazine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11 (Post 3489840)

Baiting mule deer. It was quite a few years ago.

Never heard that one. He's been around for a long long time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel (Post 3489845)

Never heard that one. He's been around for a long long time.

I hunted with him close to 20 years ago, and he wasn't a young man then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okotokian (Post 3489347)

Bingo. Most of these "professional" associations are set up to run cover for their members.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rugatika (Post 3489862)

Bingo. Most of these "professional" associations are set up to run cover for their members.

This statement is so very true. If you think APOS is bad, try dealing with the Law Society of Alberta.
But truthfully, with the amount of APOS bashing that has been going on, perhaps this energy could be directed towards our provincial and federal governments. They are the ones we should be going after.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronji (Post 3490049)

Well, the Alberta govt is currently reviewing over 300 boards, agencies and commissions. Phase 1 was to end this month. Will be interesting to see what they come up with for findings on this one. The NDP has actually been pretty serious about this issue, slashing chairmen's salaries, etc. etc. Not business as usual.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice Fishing Maniac (Post 3489725)

I believe there are good hard working ethical outfitters out there in Alberta but then there are the un-ethical ones !!

I know there are many honest hard working outfitter in Alberta, I used to work for one, and am friends with a couple of others.

Make no mistake, they hate what APOS has become as much as you and I do.

All APOS is is the rich boys club. What has happened to this province..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okotokian (Post 3490059)

So how many salaries have been slashed to date? I ask, because if the people involved have contracts, the NDP can't just slash their salaries.