Crossbow faster than compound bow?
 

What do you guys think?

Depends... on the xbow and the compound... comparing apples to oranges...

one is drawn with muscle powere and the the other if faster is drawn with aid of a mechanical device...

:D There already is crossbows breaking the 400FPS speed barrier...however as nekred stated..its still a crossbow...many think they are like a rifle for accuracy and distance...crossbows are still only as accurate as the nut behind the string and basically same distance as a bow...

There are bows out there plenty fast at 360 FPS and they are bows and as accurate as any crossbow...

Not sure what your point is?

JMHO
Neil

My HCA Speed Pro is capable of spitting an arrow out over 400fps....and warranties below 5gpp....but it's a pretty light arrow!

I just can't believe how loud most x-bows are!

LC

:D 80 lb Lefty?

Neil

I second the question "what is the point ?".

Crossbows to Oranges ?

1 sight pin that covers 100 yards ?
At this distance you should be thinking black powder and a scope.

If you can't hit where your are aiming, you wont do squat or will do worse.

No matter what you shoot with.

Example...
If you cant down em with a gun, then dont begin to think
you can do it with a crossbow just because it get you more time in the field.

It don't work like that.

Fellow AO members please correct me if I'm wrong here.
:)

I think guys are reading to much into this question. The simple answer is yes the fastest crossbows are faster that the fastest compounds.

I have an Excalibur Exomax that'll fling a bolt at 350 fps. The fastest crossbow on the Excalibur site is the Excalibur Matrix 380 Xtra at 380 fps. The PSE Tac Elite seems to be the one that most people identify with as one of the fastest crossbows and they advertise speeds between 405 - 395 fps.

I think that would be a pretty good comparison starting point. :)

......that can only be drawn with muscle power. There is no magical diesel operated, solar controlled crossbow cocking device.

:D Thats a trick answer...the fastest crossbows are only as fast as the fastest compounds at the same speed...there is compounds as fast as crossbows ans more accurate....compare 250-300 lb pull to 70-80 lb for speed....compounds rule....

JMHO
Neil

I did not intend that to be a trick answer. A simple google search shows the fastest compound bow to be the PSE omen at 366fps and not getting to deep into crossbows the barnette ghost410 is listed at 410 fps. This is what some one can go to a store and buy. How they make there speed is different for sure but this is the bottom line. The biggest difference is most people could shoot a 400 fps crossbow accurately and very few could handle a 360 fps compound.

Is the crossbow bolt at IBO of 5gr per pound at 70lbs?

To compare things we need to know a few things...like the arrow weight vs bolt weight etc....

LC

I am getting sucked into the black hole debate that is crossbow so this is my last coment on this subject . The compondunds have warinty to 5 grains per pound or Ibo and crossbows are much less but designed for it. I guess High country makes a bow that is able to shoot there super arrow (3 grains per pound or something) at or near 400 fps which is still slower than production crossbows. You can not have an apple to apple comparison crossbows are simply faster.

on average yes. there are compounds that are every bit as fast however. further, that is speed right out of the bow. the much much better ballistic coefficient of an arrow means that as you get out there a bit, the arrow maintains its speed a heck of a lot better than any bolt.

what does it all mean at the end of the day? pretty much nothing.

:) I agree that crossbows are quicker on average no doubt!

I know very little about the cross bow and I don't know what the average bolt would weigh?

LC

I have an Excalibur Exomax and my bolts are 255gr and tips/broadheads are 150gr if that helps you out any.

444 grs. 150 gr broadhead on this arrow...

why does a 20" bolt weighing the same as a 30" arrow slow down more at higher distances?

Wiki:

"Bolts and arrows have different flight characteristics. Bolts fall at the same rate, independent of the speed of flight. Arrows, in contrast, depend on gaining lift in flight."

From Wikipedia. Bolts do not have fletching. Modern crossbows are designed to shoot arrows instead of bolts. Crossbow arrows are of similar construction to ordinary bow arrows.

I can't see how a 20 inch arrow is going to loose energy any faster than a 28 inch arrow, over the distance that an arrow is routinely shot. Yes I understand ballistic coefficient. Arrows are used over short distances, so any difference is going to be so negligible, that the difference is meaningless.

:D Stink..lol sorry about the black hole thing...wasnt my intent...
as you say crossbows are faster than compounds and bullets are faster than crossbows...

But if you took a 70 lb crossbow and a 70 lb compound... guess which is faster...IBO


I know 100 lb of compounds out there...we were kinna comparing IBO to 250-275 lb crossbows
just saying...lol

JMHO
Neil

:D No but there are battery operated cocking devices and hand crank devices that draw the crossbow with no muscle power...hence rules those crossbows out ?...lol the debate is endless on that question..

JMHO
Neil

That was my thinking as well. I keep hearing that crossbow bolts (20" arrows with fletchings) lose more speed (and have less energy) at further distances used for hunting (let's say 75 metres or less), but I don't see how it's enough to worry about if the total arrow weight is the same.

Where did you get that scale? I'd like to buy one as well.

:D Most dealers Carry them or can get them..CX makes a good one ..Grams,Grains,OZ etc...bout $50.00

http://www.cabelas.ca/product/10060/...al-grain-scale

Neil

nevermind. :)

not entirely true . you don't need to be able to draw a bow any more you can just use one of these ...

http://www.lockadraw.com/

speechless.....but after reading the comments on the site, nice to see to many "injured" people still wanting to shoot a bow for hunting.

Don't get me wrong I am not advocating one way or the other . but I am making the observation that the idea of archery has become pretty convoluted in the past number of years . Nothing remotely close to what Saxton Pope and Arthur young probably had in mind when they thought about Bow hunting. The argument that the Crossbow is somehow less legitimate is becoming , well... less legitimate as time goes on.
:thinking-006:

if you really are interested in the physics of it....this is a good start...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_coefficient

from that we can see that the formula goes like this....



:[2][3]
BC_{Bullets} = \frac{SD}{i} = \frac{M}{i \cdot d^2}

and the "l" in that formula is length. longer length means higher ballistic coefficient which means less speed loss at further distance. now that formula specifically is designed for bullets, but it was the most simple explanation i could find.

more speed at further distance means more energy on impact....and in archery the energy measurement that matters is momentum, not kinetic energy. in that respect, i give the longer arrow from a vertical bow the edge.

now is the difference significant enough in the real world to actually mean anything? i know i certainly dont think so. with a range finder and a proper means of sighting....both weapons are capable of killing things out to 100 yards plus. the vast majority of archers however arent anywhere near that distance.

edit....i see the formula did not copy well at all to this forum, so look at the link to see it the way it is written.