xgun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDQthc4jap4

What proof? Its all about the definition you choose to use, there is nothing to prove. As it is not drawn and held by muscle power it is not a bow in Alberta. The largest organization of bowhunters in North America also does not recognize it as a bow nor do a majority of states. Seems like there is still alot to debate and that a majority still are of the opinion that it isn't a bow. Even the last poll here showed a majority were of the opinion it should not be allowed in the archery season.

Looks like a lot of rifle parts on that TAC15...........

Never said anything about harvests, just shooting capabilities. ... lol, you need reading
glasses , my friend. .lol

Not arguing about hunting abilities of the hunter either... that's a whole other argument. .


And stinky there is no debate if XGUNS are bows... our government and the majority of Albertans say they are not.... its the XGUN society that needs more debates and proof that they are not a close cousin of a rifle.... good luck...

Hunting has nothing

Just dont want any misinformation running around, u argue on paper anyone can be a star with a horizontal bow at 100, I agree, this thread came from a crossbow inclusion to our archery hunting opportunities thread, comments were made that just as easy to do it on game etc. And for some with right gear and prep it might be, but at same time I think it's good for all those educating themselves on the tool, as this topic will be hot for years maybe decades to come, that as it relates to bowhunting it is 100% bow. I understand archery definition, I'm ok with what as happened so far. Just want threads on topic to have full picture.

Ehuntr good job and think post has plenty of relevant info for people to learn from.

Ie; u tell me if any 3 year old should be dialing 46 clicks past a 50 yard zero to get to 100 and then see how cool it is to watch the arrow arc way up and then finally hear impact a second later on live animals in field conditions?(ehuntr's own comments from original post) those time of flight and arc descriptions remind me of ringing steel past 500 yards with my rifles...hardly the sort of thing average Joe will be doing in hunting conditions

End of day....100 yards with any bow is very long range for the tool as it relates to killing animals and very few will be able to do it consistently

Ethical hunters do not fling arrows a 100 yards at game, recipe for disaster. Regarding what you use you should be very capable of insuring one killing shot within an acceptable hunting range.
Shooting targets is different where the only thing hurt might be an ego and perhaps your savings account buying more equipment due to missed shot etc.

Thats a some great shooting! What sort of broadheads were you using?

Goose smasher

:D The great Salami predicts.....5 pages before it gets nuked...Lmao

Good post and very nice shooting - considering picking one up for rifle season, where it should be :fighting0030:

No problem with injured folks using them during archery... in fact I'm trying to help my dad get into one because he can't pull a bow back anymore after shoulder surgery.

They look like alot of fun to shoot and If I do get one I can't see me using a rifle for anything anymore.

I said something about a three year old? Not. I have a three year old grandaughter lol and she would not be competent at too much except three year old stuff.

Lol, thanks, ya I know and all reading this thread will know potty brought the 3 yr old into it.

Potty, here's a guy who knows what it takes to shoot arrows at a 100 with a crossbow, he's not feelin it for the 3 yr olds. I bet with some good coaching however we could get em behind the wheel.

Never said anything about 100 yards.... But my 3 year old can shoot my gun off a bench and bi-pod, and hit paper at 20 yds...... I'm pretty confident she'll be able to do the same with a xgun......

C'mon stinky, I'm sure even your kids could.... Your the one who sys you want xguns for young kids to get involved .... And now you don't think there capable....??! Which one is it???

I believe both Compounds and crossbows are equally capable in the name of hunting.

Everywhere they play together the data seems to say exactly that.

I see more upside and versatility with compounds, they have differences, pros and cons, but they equal out on game in hunting. The crossbow I see benefit to having included for various reasons, the option to a one size and strength fits all bow option is good thing. My kids would likely tell me they wanna shoot compounds at some point, maybe I never even buy a crossbow even if included. Would be nice for introducing adult newbs to hunting though which I do lots of...but usually with rifle and in November, I get spread pretty thin in fall doing hunting and introducing, using a crossbow for some introductions on bow zone does would help me out a bit and get more going each year, have line up of new hunters that doesn't go away. Anyrate, I may or may not get one if allowed. Not really the point, the point is it's a bow. There is no advantage when it comes to game harvest over compounds, they r peers. For so many reasons this tool should be lumped in where it fits.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=VbefCoY71Os

The above is very common, dime a dozen stuff, 100 yrd with compounds for groups and hunt vids are all over the place. We shoot like this too all summer only to 80 as we only run 7 pins so as we r ok with only going that far but another 20 wouldn't make much difference, two of three in our group have no issue wailing the kill zone on the buck targets all day at 80, 3rd guy I think only pinned to 60 so that's all he shoots too and is proficient at, he got a pope muley at 65 a couple years back, the other guy pinned to 80 has two or three kills between 70 and 75 in past couple seasons, and my long kills r bunch in the 50's and a 64 and 65...if we wanted to prove anything like the original post in this thread or the video above it would be simply a matter of setting a pin up and moving back another 20 and no big deal, we recognize that it's easily possible on paper but not really that useful in the field, I'd have the ability if I had a slider single pin sight but likely never use it in field just practice, just prefer fixed 7 pin for hunting just as most rifle hunters prefer to kill well inside 300, most bow hunters prefer to kill inside 60.

The gear and plenty of shooters more than capable of showing off at 100 and beyond on paper, compounds or crossbows, totally different when it's on game in field conditions and u want highest percent chance of clean kill. 100 with compounds/crossbows is equivalent to 5-600 with a rifle, very few will do it, even fewer will do it consistently.

Ah, more "XGun" nonsense...

Whenever I see someone use this term, it shows me that they are a hunting snob. That if someone uses something different from what they use, its wrong and should not be allowed.

They are more than happy to try and ruin someone else's fun, because they don't have any fun with a crossbow.

As I suspected, I checked ballistics of my 270 win with a 200 yrd zero and 46 clicks of elevation gets me to 600 yards.

And the crossbow zerod at 50 yards then adding 46 clicks would be more like the 270 zeroed at 400....add 46 clicks to that and we r pushing 750 yards. Since both then would be zeroed well past their point blank zero range of say 6" kill zone for big game hunting which is commonly used. Ie for my 270 the pbz for 6" is approx. 250 yards and I'm still in kill zone to about 300 yards.

A 300 fps compound this would be around 25 yards with a 30 yrd range staying in kill zone, if a crossbow is say 350 fps u could probably add another 5 to 10 yards to both.

End of day what do u see there?....two bows and one gun. Calling the crossbow anything other than a bow (as it relates to hunting) is 100% silly, misinformed, wrong, etc.


And sure we can find the fastest crossbow and re-run the numbers...and I'll do the same with a 264 win mag pushing 130-140 bergers at 3200+ it will show the same differences, one will be a bow and one a gun. The 270 win is typical and so would say 300 fps compound and 350 fps crossbow with all three numbers being on the faster end of typical hunt gear used in each category...so they make a good comparison here.

One bow, one xgun, and one rifle ...... And my bow can't click once, never mind 46 on a scope....

Ill dummy it down for ya......

If a rifle = a woman
A bow = a man
What would you call something with parts and mannerisms of both?

I call it a xgun , and I ain't into xgendres........ But each their own, :sHa_sarcasticlol:

Lol,

Good point though, no we use slider single pin sights that don't click and can more easily and silently account for the same or even more elevation gain than a scope (advantage compound)....or fixed multi pin sights which are basically same as multi aim point reticles like the Zeiss rapid-z 1000....again, totally silent over dialing up on game inside 100, advantage compound. It would seem a multi aim point reticle for any sort of bow would be the best option for simplicity, silence, speed of use.

I'm glad however this test was done via dialing up, it gives an ambidextrous gun/bow guy even more insight to what I already new about crossbow being a bow. The sort of elevation required, time of flight, etc. To do 100 yrdshots with such low speed weapons gives great way to compare to what an equivalent shot would be like with a rifle....750 yards!

They r both bows, beyond shadow of a doubt. Ehuntrs data is very compelling and helpful indeed!

Lol, anytime u r worried about running out of elevation on your sight chances r pretty good u r pushing the envelope of what is possible on paper and many times what is usuable regularly on game.

My intent was to be helpful. My resolve, two-fold:

1. Educate hunters who do not use bows, make it appeal to them, by demonstrating how easy it would be for them to pick up a crossbow and be able to use it in the same manner as a rifle; and

2. At the same time, educate the guys who use bows on what crossbows are capable of, in order they become even more resolved in their cause to not agree that xguns (lol) be defined as archery equipment.

I've not seen any 100 yard groups from the compound guys? Yeah, yeah...they are on youtube. I'm not saying there aren't people who can group 3 arrows in three inches with a compound.......I'm saying they are silent. They must be really good and really modest.https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...y4wOsI5CdEqRS0
Modesty not required for 100 yard xgun groups....anybody can do it.

Except in the opinion of the majority of Alberta hunters, both bow and rifle, that were polled and voiced there opinion that they are not archery equipment and should not be used in the archery season. A majority of states and provinces agree, as does the largest bowhunting organization in North America.

Since a crossbow doesn't have to be drawn and held by muscle power, be it 5 pounds or 150 it isn't a bow, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Doesn't make definition of archery, that's ok by me love my compound. Its a bow in eyes of hunting...period. My big goal is simply getting all sides out there so people don't just get the protectionist selfish side...this is about the tool, learn the full story before drawing conclusions...the world is better place when we do it that way.

Funny on groups, me and buds flip groups pics every year to each other but on forum? Why? Show off? No thanks, I'll rip some 2" groups at 60 and the odd 3" at 80 and flip a pic but no sense on forum, ....... being we r well inside kill zones with compounds already to further than most should shoot...I fail to see any difference there with crossbow, both can be shot well enough to kill stuff to ranges most shouldn't be attempting to kill stuff. I haven't googled long distance crossbow kills but there r enough with compounds there is no point.

More consistency on paper is nice, appears to be an advantage and it is if shooting groups on paper is goal, but we don't shoot groups on animals, getting one in the kill zone...so it's a bit of an illusion. Going 100 on game the issue isn't group size...it's time of flight, wind, field and animal conditions, assume u r rested with crossbow...compounds never have to worry about that ;), it's a good try ehuntr but long rang bow stuff is for very few stuations and shooters, lobbing projectiles that arc way up and big delays before hearing impacts....they r the same.

There is no advantage of crossbow over compound in name of hunting.

Except that

1. little skill is required to operate a crossbow
2. very little practice is required to become highly skilled with a crossbow
3. you can use a rest
4. you don't get busted drawing your bow
5. you don't get the shakes after holding at draw for several minutes
6. you don't have to let down after holding at draw for several minutes
7. winter clothing does not interfere with crossbow operation

Hey, these are all good things...........right?

So when I try the experiment how many tries will it take me to get a grouping like the one in the picture that was in your OP? First try.....second.....third......

These are your conclusions from your experiment from shooting a crossbow off a table and sandbags at a target at 100 yds.....you're kidding right?

If you get busted drawing your compound bow at 100 yds then you are doing something wrong. If you can shoulder a crossbow indefinitely then you are awesome. Oh boy.......I think that you need to give it a little more thought.

Questions questions questions. I shot a group at 50, 3 or four at 75 and the same for 100 yards. Only because I had to come up with the right nbr of elevation clicks On the first group at 100 I lost a bolt. Not because the shot was off.....it was a real mechanical malfunction.....a fletch ripped off.......you could hear it all the way down range. Practice doesn't really improve results, just getting the elevation rightr is the key.

What? Those are not conclusions from one range day. Those are conclusions based on 25 years of bowhunting. I used a bag because I could use a bag. Just like anyone who is serious about sighting in a rifle. I would never sight in a rifle offhand. You can't do that with a compound, so that is a plus for a crossbow.........a good thing! Somehow I get the feeling that all the plusses that I point out about crossbows are taken negatively by the people who are crossbow proponents. I don't get it?

Getting busted at 100 yards? Didn't imply that at all. In a tree stand I normally set up with a shooting possibility of maybe 30 yards, using my compound. Deer come in closer than that.......you know, they don't do what you want them to do. I've been busted countless times drawing my bow on deer that were close in. Now with a crossbow, that is not a factor. And, I have held on deer with my crossbow shouldered for a lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng time. Too easy, sitting in a stand. Sitting dowm, elbows on knees/thighs, crossbow in hand, eyes through the scope (same as a rifle). You could stay in that position indefinately if you had to. I've already done it, don't have to put any more thought into it. I have hunted with a compound long enough to know that in a tree stand a crossbow is the KING.

If a crossbow were legal in the archery season I would always use it in a treestand or blind.

Nice shooting tex. Now do that with a broad head and I'll be impressed.

There is no skill involved. If I could do that with a compound I'd be whooping some azz. Does it matter if I use mechanical or fixed?

Any weapon requires skill to accurately provide intended results..

Compounds will shoot the same if your intentions were to provide these results..

The division in weapon choice really gets old :(

Are you saying, a person who has never shot either weapon, can achieve similar results, in the same amount of time? Really?

There's no division in weapon choice at all... I accept all weapons in the general season, as do most of Albertans .

The next 3D archery tourney I should show up with a crossbow and see if they will let me compete....:)

LC