I have killed Elk,Moose,and Deer with Calibers from 270-300 wby.

Many of them have dropped in their tracks from a lung shot.Yes the spine shot drops them but often they are not dead and you waste meat.

I’m not talking about meat or how fast they die, I’m only talking about bang flop.

Are you saying you’ve shot them in the lungs and by the time the recoil was done the animal was flat?

Cumulative would be where the shoulder gets sore after multiple rounds fired with I the same day not within the same year.
That young fellow was over gunned, under padded and just plain uncomfortable with recoil.

That is the point of the thread.

Like getting kicked in the nads. Once is enough that you don't want to be kicked again or ever for that matter....memory.

As they say; once kicked twice shy.

Junior needs more trigger time and develop better skills with a rifle he has confidence in (smaller caliber) and work his way up.

Re-group and start over....It will happen....

For myself I know recoil is the unavoidable result of touching a round off...

your brain can only have one thought at a time.... If you are thinking about the recoil.... you are not thinking about the shot.....

If you are so busy focusing on the shot and knowing recoil is inevitable then you will not flinch... however if your let your mind drift and even suggest recoil then your mind is not on the shot.... the key is to focus on the shot....on aiming... no difference than those who punch the trigger in archery....

Sold my 300wsm because of recoil the biggest caliber I own now is a .270. I mostly use my .243 I’ve taken a lot of animals with it and never required a fallow up shot.

If you were an nhl player or hockey players which there are thousands of and they put they average joe blow in there and they just laced him into the boards he wouldn't get up,probably would get hurt badly.

Some guys condition themselves so pain is no big deal and know what rifle fits right,proper grip and never thinking about recoil which is the biggest mistake.Recoil at a bench if your not positioned right will let you know.

Why can one guy enjoy a larger cartridge and some can't,i see many hunter that look like a bag of milk ready to bust,so is it just recoil or unfit shooters.

How many guys blank right out and are totally zoned in when it's time to take there living target out and do everything correct without feeling a thing.,while others shot 6 feet high,ditch there clip,shake like rag dolls,horns get's shot off and then blame it on there rifle which may only be a 243.

You don't need to be tarzan,but pe wee hermans are out there a plenty.Some guys put a muzzle on a 6.5 hunting rifle at 8 lb recoil .So it's more in the mind than most think.Where all different in how we think and body size and structure so pic what cartridge you think you can shoot well.Plus some guys just enjoying bigger cartridges for there own personal reasons.

Why can one guy enjoy a larger cartridge and some can't,i see many hunter that look like a bag of milk ready to bust,so is it just recoil or unfit shooters.[/QUOTE]

I’d say a bit of both seen plenty a shooter that say their a good shot only to prove themselves wrong. Some of witch were rifles with excessive trigger pull probably couldn’t shot straight if it was in a vise. Others closed there eyes just before they pull the trigger. What ever the reason we owe it to the game to practice and be efficient shooters no matter what cartridge we shoot. Find the one that works effectively for the individual behind it.

You have evolved and come full circle some are still evolving and once they evolve they will realize that a powder burning, fire snorting, snot flinging, eye brow cutter, ear piercing wanna be son of Thor rifle is not needed they will reach for the ....243...7-08....just a matter of time.:)

Oh my Ford

I fear the ageing category now,,, I'm going to get a wooden shoulder implant along with a steel plate in my head so I can extend my heavy lead boolit days. Ha

My plan is to hold off as long as I can,,, maybe tomorrow I'll change my mind.

Oh dont get me wrong periodically I like to get rocked....she knows what I am asking....:)


No break required either just full on let'em rip.......:scared0018:

:happy0034:

OK I missed that somewhere.
The guy in the video was talking about when hunting and each shot hurting.
To me cumulative is the tenderness felt after 150 rounds of sporting clays on the same day.
Call it what you want then.

That has not been my experience. I guided a few NFL players back when I was guiding.
Only one of the NFL players I met could handle the kick of the rifle he hunted with. That rifle was a modest kicker, not a canon without wheels like the others packed.

It seems that getting hit by a linebacker is a whole lot different then getting kicked by a canon. Who'd a thunk it.

But the bottom line is, there are all kinds of guys who claim that recoil does not bother them but their shooting and recoil reducer sales say otherwise.

I think we all recognize that some people like to feel pain, and others don't even feel pain as much as most.

And there is a whole lot of guys who seem to feel a need to prove how tough they are, when they really aren't.

Clearly it is not good advice to suggest to a beginner that he should start out with one of those rifles that bring tears to the eyes of a 6'4" 280 pound football player. Yet it happens here almost daily.

Why would any guide let there guest shoot a rifle that hurt him,some thing is way off there.If you can't handle a rifle around me guest or not then the hunt is over,specially a man that size crying or tears.So he was hunting with something that hurt him and he never during any hunt decided this is not for me,then he is an idiot and had his head hit to hard.

No new shooter should start with something that will ruin there shooting skills,i bought my grand kid a 6.5 cm,i have 6.5 swede plus I like everything from a 22 lr to a 300 win with out any pian,there's no snot flying or more fire flyin then my 22 250 with a 20 inch barrel than my 300 win with 26 inch.

This shooting lighter cartridges is totally up to that person and is none of my business,just as I like to shoot what I like is nobodies business but mine,so mind your own business and I will mind mine.
The feeling is mutual both ways,so I take no offence by it.You wear your pants the way you like,eat the foods you like,do whatever it is you like,but don't tell me what I should like .If my wife likes it slow or fast in anything we do together that's my business but I will never let the forum know that part,i respect her way to much for that crap talk.Tough guys.

I'm trying to remember if it was Jeff Cooper or perhaps Elmer Keith that mentioned big guys suffering the effects to of felt recoil more than smaller framed guys.
The idea being that the smaller frame will move and flex with recoil.
The heavier frame more resistant to inertia and absorbing more of the force.
I too have witnessed this.

It was Elmer Keith .
Jeff Cooper may have mentioned it as well but I remember Keith staying it in an article when I was very young.:)
Cat

What are you getting at? Recoil is subjective? But people should man up? Learn to take pain? Make your own choices? Professional athletes are a good yardstick when it comes to recoil tolerance?

:Laughing:sHa_shakeshout::sHa_shakeshout::sHa_shake shout::sHa_shakeshout::sHa_sarcasticlol::sHa_sarca sticlol:

Stock design and fit, recoil pad, balance, and overall weight. And I shoot less rounds at a session more often, rather than a few boxes, a couple of times each year. My big magnums all wear McMillan stocks and Decellerators, and they have heavier contour barrels, and I dont have issues with recoil.

Shooting is very subjective period! Recoil, blast, weight of rifle, weight of bullet, shooting position and environmental conditions, etc. effects us all in different ways. In my case I feel the recoil and blast at the range but when I’m shooting at an animal I don’t feel any recoil nor do I hear the blast. Nothin like a shot of adrenaline!!

After all these years, I'm convinced that felt recoil is is enormously affected by the fit of the stock. I've had .458 Win Mags that were quite comfortable, and .308 Winchesters that just plain hurt.

I once had a nice light Tikka (Model 65 maybe? With a wood stock and detachable magazine, in the '80s) chambered in .338 WM. I swear, every time I touched it off my face would go numb for half an hour and I'd be almost unable to raise my arm. I sold it to a woman about 5'6" tall and 120 pounds soaking wet. I protested like crazy, and was very reluctant to even let her try it, but she insisted. She loved it! As far as I know, she hunted with it for years.

I currently have a SAKO L61R in .375 H&H. It was pretty wicked to start with, until I added an inch to the stock, took a half inch off the comb and had the bolt handle straightened. Now it's a joy to shoot. A 788 Remington in .308 mistreated me so badly that I sold it as quick as I could.

If you have a recoil problem, get a good stock smith to measure you up and fit your rifle to you. You wouldn't wear the wrong size shoes, because they'd hurt - but nobody stops to think that maybe their rifle hurts because it doesn't fit either!

It seems to me that felt recoil is less the issue then first experiences.

I'm not saying that felt recoil is not an issue.

I'm saying that when one's first experience with a particular caliber or a particular rifle hurts, it sets the tone for all future shots with that caliber or rifle.

Which is why I participated in this thread. All too often, whenever a new hunter asks for advice on what rifle or caliber to choose, the uber magnum crowd dominates the discussion, often dismissing those who suggest a less powerful option with comments about bang flop kills and such.

100 years ago rifles had steel buttplates and shot 3006. According to this thread, and many others on this website, only a fool would use 3006 now that these smaller more civilized cartridges are around. Its interesting watching how people articulate or even encourage the softening of each generation. Pick whatever cartridge you enjoy shooting, be it 243win or 500NE. Each cartridge has its strong points. Some of these super high bc low energy skinny cartridges are best suited for long range paper. Some of the fat rainbow trajectory are better for up close big game. Let the shooter decide what's appropriate. Planning ahead and making the right choice for your situation is the manly thing to do. Pulling stunts with incorrect choices so you can brag online is purely egotistical, not so manly.

The most uncomfortable rifle that I have fired was a Ruger Ultralight chambered in 270win. A friend had purchased it for his wife, because it was so light and handy to carry, but after the first shot he took with it, he decided that the felt recoil was way to much for her. I would much rather shoot my unbraked 300RUM than that rifle.

Nephew bought the exact same rifle/cartridge. I was unpleasantly surprised at the whack it gave first time I pulled the trigger on it.

Stock fit/design, weight, scope height, length of pull etc etc all play a role in felt recoil. But nothing has such a dramatic affect as cutting a powder charge in half and shaving a third off of bullet weight.

I think the two that surprised me the most, were a .308Win in whatever gun it was, BLR or a bolt action, I forget now, and a 300WinMag in a model 70. The guy that owned the 300 also like my KS 338WM better than that gun. I scoped myself with my 7-08 once when shooting prone, that wasn't the gun's issue though. Never had an issue with 7x57 or 6.5x55 with metal buttplates on the guns, carbines or full length. Go figure.

Where has that been said. Do you have a link or at least a thread title?

As for what folks used 100 years ago, I think you'll find that the .303 far outnumbered other cartridges back then.

More recently, in the 1960s and 1970s I remember there being a lot of .308s and 30-30s in use. Other favorite cartridges of the day were 25-35 and even 25-20.


I remember folks back then, A; thought the 30-06 kicked too hard and did too much damage. A function I suspect of the bullets available then.
B; money was hard to come by and there were more important uses for what money one had.


I totally agree that each person needs to choose what is right for him or even just what he likes.

Where I have an issue is when the magnum crowd insists on advising beginners to choose a magnum as their first rifle.

I also have an issue with people using demeaning or inflammatory comments in making a point. Such as "the softening of" which to me implies that those who shoot calibers that kick less are somehow soft.

Yeah I know I'm guilty of that too. I'm working on that.
In my defense, it's hard to not respond in kind around here.


I should add, I agree that there has been a softening of recent generations. For the most part I don't see that as a negative thing though.

For example, most of us would not want to live without running water. I think that's good. Folks smell a lot better these days because of it, I'm sure.

I think that a hundred years ago people endured a lot more, not by choice but because they had no alternative. Which was the case with the steel butt plates I am sure. People got rid of them as soon as there was an alternative. That started with those nasty slip on recoil reducers.