I think its just something you need to experiance to understand.

I hear ya and I'd be the first one to jump on board with what ever mechanism makes sense to insure a healthy herd. The issue is though if in fact this is a real problem or if it is a case that a well placed special interest got the ear of someone that had the ability to affect change on the management of the sheep hunt.

Personally I feel that the latter is the case. In fact going through the survey numbers supplied by ACA for the north zones it looks like numbers are fairly stable. Possibly age structure is an issue but that may very well be explained by any number of issues. If like what has been suggested that to many short sheep are being shot and not enough convictions are being able to stick then the problem is not the management of the hunt but rather the inability to make a simple law like shooting a short sheep stick and but the fear of shooting such an animal as a deterrent.

If this has alterior motives than it is just plane wrong and everyone invovled should be ashamed at how they are doing business.

If there is truly a problem, which could be the case then we have to look at solutions to that.

I'm not sure "enjoy it" is the right phrase, but I see you workin'

Well said and i deffinatly agree that special intrest groups shouldnt be able to manipulate the system to alter stuff in there favor and hopefully one day these things can be stopped.
Its just to bad there isnt a more solid way to determin legality of a sheep.
SG

It is funny how that gets to be a real fine line. I really beleive that a little education wouldn't hurt anyone including some that have been in this game for a long time. This includes outfitters. I think someone had pointed out that a good portion of the rams taken by outfitters are not real crackers and I guess if I'm putting out that kind of money I would want to take home something, but at the same time the idea that anything is better than nothing can't be right all the time either. I think it is gunslinger that has booked a dessert sheep hunt (and by no means am I trying to tell anyone how to handle themselves) but if any of us where in his shoes knowing what is going on here in Alberta can you now say that "Any" legal ram is OK.

I know that is crap to say and even bigger crap to try and say I would do this or that but it certainly should get all of us to think about how we affect the resource every time we march up a mountain or crawl through a coulee looking for that "trophy"

A little birdie just whispered in my ear that 2009 saw the outfitters have their worst sheep season ever with a 50% reduction in sheep kills. Only 23 trophy rams were killed. Outfitters would be the big winners if the 5 year law were instituted.

[QUOTE=sheepguide;509044]I just got off the phone with him and I can guarantee he doesn't......:)

This is already a stated fact about the outfitters. We all know they would benifit. That is why we stated things need to be adjusted for both groups if any changes are made! It has been done in the past with lowering of allocations for other big game animals.
Not saying that anything will be done this time but we are all in 100% agreement that it should!
SG

[QUOTE=sheephunter;509151]and your the more mature of us... hmmm seems like your poking a stick in the cage right here.

[QUOTE=sheepguide;509154]Just passing along a fact...nothing more.

[QUOTE=sheephunter;509155]Cool thanks!!!!

Well I hope those that know realize that one year doesn't make a trend and just going back through some of the past harvest numbers there have been a few years where Non-resident harvests have dipped below 25 just to rebound the next year to over 40 and over 50.

As an example my personal expereince this year was that hunting conditions could have had a lot to do with it. I had two big chunks of time to get out and both were hindered by horrible conditions, last year most of it was blue skies and green meadows.

Some of this years trend was due some outfitters having a tough time booking hunters. The reduction in kills doesnt mean that their kill rates were way lower. I know one outfitter that only booked 1 tag out of 8. I also know an outfitter that harvest went 0 for 4 and 3 for sure that ran 3 for 4.
Sg

[QUOTE=sheephunter;509155]You know you remove just one poster and all the horse sh1t and confrontation goes with it. The thread is now a good read from one end to the other with some great information. I high recommend it to everyone!

[QUOTE=209x50;509174]Who did we remove?

Ummm...I didn't make that post so please don't attribute it to me.

LOL I never even quoted it TJ not sure what happened there:huh:

The post 209 posted a couple posts ago had a quote that you said with my name on it on my end to.

Get a life man seriously....

I get the picture BB that you have an issue with me but on post #524 it states Originaly posted by sheepguide and the quote is Just passing along a fact... nothing more. Which was actually posted by sheephunter on post # 520 so something is a little wonky!!!

So maybe you should take your own advice.

So perhaps you should fix it then?

So, the 5 year wait idea was put forward by AFGA and FNAWS? It does make you question their reasons if the population numbers do not show any problems. Now, examining our current system to see if things could be better - always a good idea for any game management strategy. But to make changes because of some other agenda, which you can't help think is at play, is just plain wrong!
Having said that, I see it has been said a couple of times now that changing our system slightly may help result in better balanced age structure for rams. Not sure if I said it first or not, but the idea I wrote down was that after the first or even second legal 4/5 ram, a hunter is still allowed to take another 4/5 ram. No change to that part of things and the one year wait would also be unchanged. If, however, the following rams taken are under 8 years of age the wait time before that hunter can hunt sheep again is increased (not sure how long, but longer) from the one year wait. The idea is to encourage hunters that have taken a few rams to hold out for larger, older rams. This should stop the every other year ram meat/cape hunter. The flaw in this system would be disputes in the aging of rams by the hunter and F&W.
So, if there is a problem with age structure of rams, this system could help. And, a problem I have seen written about here a number of times, it should stop the every other year meat/cape hunter from taking those younger rams. If they do they are penalizing themselves.
It was interesting a couple of years ago when my son was taking some biology courses at the U of C. The one theme that came up in a wildlife management course he took is that wildlife management is not rocket science - it is in fact much more difficult. This is the same thing we said in classes I took some years ago at the U of A. Wildlife management is difficult - rocket science is much simpler!

and just how do I fix a quote that is in 209's post TJ? Post # 524 was not placed by me thanks.

The five year wait was not put forward by AFGA. It was sent in as a resolution to be voted on at their conference. Nothing is put forward to SRD until a resolution is carried by majority vote at conference. I suspect this one will receive some heated opposition.

Can any one tell me that if in B.C for stone rams that if the outfitters kills to many young rams they used to loose tags? Or was this just a ploy by the outfitters to keep guides killing older sheep. I havent heard this for a long time but was told by a couple outfitters this when I worked for them.

Just though that if they figure to many young rams are being shot maybe something like this could be implimented on the outfitters in alberta.

Just an idea.

SG

Sure is a bunch of horse sh1t on here since yesterday. A lot of people getting pizzed off. I wonder what the he11 will happen next. We will probably all get are azzes banned for arguing amongst each other.
I do agree with this statement "There is one common denominator with alot of guys that have been banned from this forum"

Yup your right. They have all refused to follow the rules. And with that I think this thread is dead.