If you can come up with a way of predicting the amount let me know. I've never shot a critter at 1000 yards but I have lots of bloodshot through out the front end using all makes of bullets.

My favorite bullet when shooting moose with a .308. Yeah lots of them through the shoulder, that bullets kills like lightening.

Gee, what do you think happens during cow elk season?

Shot Placement.
 

I have seen lots of the Ballistic Tip Noslers do exactly that, blow up on the entrance side of the animal. Horrific wound, but sometimes not immediately fatal.
I hunted with a guy who was a Vice-President with Federal Ammo at the time. He told me the Ballistic Tip Nosler was designed for game 150 pounds or less and as Federal was loading these bullets at the time, they were receiving lots of bad field reports from un-happy hunters about these bullets.
I asked them why they were selling them then, expecially in calibers that would be used for game bigger than 150 lbs., and he told me it was all about marketing. It was one of their best selling bullets at the time as everyone loved the plastic tip that didn't deform. Federal wasn't worry about the performance on game, they figured that was Noslers problem. Personally I wouldn't hunt with them. If they hit large bones (all you shoulder shooters out there) they blow up and won't penetrate. Not a reliable buller for our bigger game animals.
By the way, the .308 is a great big game calibre, pretty under-rated in my books.

After seeing what happened with those bullets hitting ribs out of my 3006 I was wondering how'd they fair if they hit any serious bone. Are you saying that they'd be suitable for a shoulder shot on a deer, say if the animal was quartering forward to me. I know that it's a different ball of wax but I was also wondering the same thing for moose with a 180 gr Nosler BT from my 300 win Mag. The buggers don't always stand broadside for me like they are supposed to.

Goodness there must be an echo in here.
I'm saying I've shoulder shot many bull moose with the Nosler BT. You'd be surprised how much easier it was to kill animals before the Internet.LOL

1000 yards?
 

What kind of system is would one use to shoot a whitetail doe at a THOUSAND YARDS?
Please tell me the set-up that you would use. I just got to hear this.
By the way, would you be going for a shoulder shot?

BT
 

Is the Nosler BT a Boat-tail or Ballistic Tip?
I need some clarification on this.

Nope, I would leave the orphned calf to continue eating my hay bales in my yard with it's 35 buddies. I don't mind. They do quite well on second cut alfalfa . Most of the calves are weaned by Jan anyways and you can kill cows until Jan 20.

I've never had a problem with them in my 270.

What was the original question????:party0052::party0052:

Nosler BT is the Nosler Balistic Tip as far as I'm talking about them.

What is your prefered shot on dangerous game? Shoulders or lungs. To paraphrase. LOL:sHa_shakeshout:

Ballistic Tip. They have a green polymer tip on them and they are basically a hollow point. Not a great design for penetrating power. No exit wound on my deer broadside to the boiler room at 200 yds.

Both,the Ballistic Tip, is a boat tailed bullet.I killed eight elk and two moose with the 180gr Ballistic Tip out of my 300RUM rifles. They expanded well and penetration was adequate. However a friend used the 165gr Ballistic Tip out of his 300win mag, and they came apart when they struck elk or moose shoulders. The jacket on the 180gr bullet was much thicker, when we sectioned both.
Eventually, we both started using the TTSX, because they penetrate more, and still expand very predictably.

BT's
 

I remember the bullets were 165 grain bullets fired out of a 30-06, and the 130 gr. out of a .270. They were very thin jacketed bullets. I remember they blew up real bad on whitetail deer.

The thicker jackets on the 180's would make sense.

I have a picture here somewhere of a deer shot in the shoulder with a Nosler BT. We found the deer days after the guy wounded it, it was alive but pretty sick. I will post if I can find it.

Good, because I loaded about 100 Nosler BT in 180 gr for my 300 win mag for hunting moose and I had my concerns. You have to plan for every eventuality and you never know when you'll have to take a shoulder shot instead of where it's supposed to go in the boiler room. :fishing: :lol:

Mountain , I can't agree.
 

Mountain guy, I think you are making a huge assumption about a high shoulder shot purposefully damaging meat. Especially without also discussing what type of bullet construction you are using.

I have always been a double lung shooter going back over the last 35 years. I was always using a cup and core style bullet. I don't support your theory of shooting does or cows in the head at closer ranges having seen deer with their jaws hanging from guys who missed.

This year I went out for a buck on Nov 1 and had a bit of a train wreck and tore my knee cartilage up. I spent the next 2 weeks getting syringes of fluid removed from it and after two weeks felt like I could manage sort of.

I went out with my new Ruger #1 7x 57 and one crutch. My little mulie buck came out at about 175 yds. I didn't want him to run as I wasn't feeling much like trailing a deer through the bush on crutches unless I had to. I used the crutch as a rest ( they are the perfect height and shape with that nice little padded grove to lay your gun in ) and I purposefully hammered him with a high shoulder shot. He went down like he'd been dropped from a plane , kicked twice and expired.

Now here's the kicker, I was using a Norma oryx bonded bullet, when I hung him and skinned him down, I was amazed at how little meat was wasted. I,ve had lots of times where a cup and core bullet came apart on impact and changed directions ruining far more meat that this did.

A lot has changed with bullet construction since I started hunting and I think you're critism about wasted meat shows a distinct lack of open minded thought.

I was very pleased with my results both in terms of killing effectiveness and lack of wasted meat.

Good to see an expert 'HUNTER' use game for target practice !!!

Agreed.

I am a meat hunter, in my experience SG is right, the percentage of meat wasted rests more on factors other then aim point.
Moreover, the amount of meat wasted is often no more then a pound or so of difference between a lot and a little, notwithstanding extremes both ways.

I prefer heart/lung shots because all the information I have suggests that that gives me the widest margin of error, and because I don't believe the rifles I use are good candidates for a shoulder shot.

As you say SG hunt long enough and most people will have at least one shot go astray resulting in a lost animal.

I know I have lost two, a bear and a Deer. And very nearly a Moose.
I pretty sure the Deer was hit high, just above the spine. It dropped like a stone and lay there for a few minutes. I watched it ready for a backup shot for maybe two minutes. Then I approached. While I was getting out my butchering gear it left. My back was turned and so I can't say what it did, only that when I turned to face it it wasn't there.
I'm not sure about the Bear. I know only that I hit a front leg.
The Moose I hit in the hump. I have mentioned the Moose a few times on a couple of threads. That Moose did not get away. But I know of at least four hump shot Moose that did escape other hunters.

One thing I think we can all agree on. A well placed shot from an adequate projectile into any of the aim points mentioned will result in a dead animal at least 99% of the time.

If we can agree on that, can we agree that some hunters are better shots the others?

I'm not a great shooter. I never could shoot one inch groups with any gun under any circumstances.
I can't afford much in the way of hunting rifles either. My guns are almost all army surplus, auction treasures, or hand-me-downs.
The one exception is my 22, my bread and butter gun. When I bought it, it was one of the primary tools of my trade. Trapping.

So for me heart/lung shots are the best option, I believe. For others shoulder shots may be the best option, I'm not in a position to judge their choice.

As this thread started with a question about shot choices on dangerous game, I suppose I should address that here too.

Since the only dangerous game (if one could call it that) I am likely to ever face would be a Grizzly Bear, I would most likely aim for the Heart/Lung shot, #2 for two reasons. 1 because that is the shot I'm most familiar with.
And because of all the reasons I mentioned above.

2 in 1. BTHP from my 300 Wby is Boat Tailed Hollow Point, Sierra company. 168gr for deer or moose in the ribs out to 300yds. Use heavier bullets past that distance.

System: 408 Cheytac in a Stiller Action. Rock Creek barrel. ATRS gill brake. McMillan A5 stock w/ adjustable cheek rest. Harris Bipod. Jewel trigger. NighForce 8-32x56mm scope w/ NP-R2 reticle.

385gr monolathed bullet ABC from BC / 3000fps / 7692 ftlbs @ Point Blank
Currently zeroed @ 600yds / 2459fps / 5168 ftlbs remaining
Calculated @ 1000yds / 2131fps / 3884 ftlbs remaining *According to Sierra program

The gun shoots sub MOA but am still working up some loads. Papered out to 600yds and have the ability to shoot to 2000yds from my home ground without worry of anything so will be doing some plinking when I get back to Canada for a few weeks.

Total cost of set up with reloading equipment and safety case? +/- $13,500
Price per shot $3.00 for bullet / powder / primer. Add $5.00 for new brass

Waiting 3-4 seconds for the bullet to smack on target.... Priceless!

Gun was bought for fun and because I can.

It's not target practice if you hit it and I'm not going to shoot a shot I have not tried a hundred times. I can set up to shoot on 3 joining quarters and will be marking all distances and shooting out to as far as I can.

It worked out well for you that time for sure. What was the bullet's path and how big was the exit wound?

Shot placement same as 50 or 100yd. Thru the rib cage.

That was short !!! I was hoping for a another long winded speach on your vast knowledge of 'HUNTING' and 'SHOOTING' :)

LOL! I don't think the fact that this thread is now 11 pages was only me. I try to limit my comments to the same # that is made to me.

It just made a tidy toonie sized hole right through the shoulders, hardly wrecked anything no blood shot spread out like can happen.

I'm not saying thats gonna happen everytime, just like a cup and core in the boiler room isn't perfect every time either.

I was more concerned with Mountain guys comments about purposefully wasting meat for the effects of a bang flop on camera and then when he followed up with the shots about orphaning an elk calf.

Those comments sounded a lot more like an axe to grind than a debate about shot placement.

Perhaps the kitting forum mentioned earlier is more suited

.408
 

Just curious as to how much bullet drop you have at 1000 yards. Also, what is your wind drift in a 15 mph wind?
I am also curious as to what adjustment you need to make for temperature.
Is a mono-lathed bullet a solid?
What power would you use on your scope for the 1000 yard doe shot?

Just curious is all.

Not sure what your issue with me is.....
No one hear will comvince me that a shoulder shot does not waste any more meat than a rib shot.
Sorry...
Not sure ..really not sure why I\m getting jumped on for not agreeing with the masses on the shoulder shot.
Sheeesh.
As far as the orphaned elk. No I don't agree with killing the mother with a calf.
D\on't use the ethic's thing with me either. I don't agree with it. Should you not go kill the mother cow?? Well thats entirely up to you...but I don't agree with it....OK
A adult cow elk is a proven breeder of offspring.. It helps in the continuation of the species to have a mature, smart breeding adult female.
The calf is less likely to survive to be as productive as it's mother presently is.
With a ''cow elk'' season I will shoot a calf before I shoot a cow..and I explain the reasons why above.
Did I have to explain this? I guess so...because there's those that jump on me and use the ethic's thing yadayadyada....
If you disagree with me ...fine.
Give me your reasons, just like I give you my reasons and we can move along.

Ok....next???

Agree
 

Bang on Mountain Guy. Bang on.