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Politics and selfish agendas are getting in the way of what should be done here for the entire hunting community/tradition. Rectify the big picture first. I would always vote for more bow zones where they make sense, high population densities, sensitive areas etc. Totally agree with you there. Some tools just better suited and make more sense for these things. I think about land owners and the general public also when talking about this, not just the hunters. I'm friends with land owners and quite frankly feel sorry for them near big centers come oct 25th and nov 1st...the shizzo they deal with every year makes me stay well clear but they let me play in the bow seasons. No safety concerns, no noise, no zillion road hunters etc. So yes there is a time and place for bows...but to exclude an excellent versatile bow option from this makes zero sense. The rifle stuff is well sorted out and has been for a long time, no need to mess with that. The bow hunting thing isn't and really the only thing missing is a great tool has been ignored and thrown in the wrong seasons where it's massively under utilized. If you can let this tool into bow zones on a dr's note why not a centerfire rifle? Why? Because it's a bow...that's why. Can you imagine if you could get rifles into bow zones on a dr's note how many people would be getting dr's notes???? Keep trying to call it a gun.:snapoutofit: You'll come around.:love0025: |
Lol. Whatever you say Stinky, I have been called anti-crossbow to which I am
Not. Selfish, to which I am not...a bunch of other things because my opinion differs. My position is based on sheer numbers vs. Opportunity and the fact so many people do not seize the available opportunity...those so passionate about crossbow use don’t use them when they can use a rifle in the same zone at the same time...that’s their choice. I choose to use a bow in those scenarios, that my choice. Do you believe tag allocations and zones that are not yet on draw would stay that way with inclusion? Certain areas can sustain additional harvest, others cannot. I truly feel that in Alberta we are at a tipping point, the way things are seems to work. We need to work on a few thing before we consider including crossbows....one of which is defining who should hunt here as a resident and what qualifies them to do so. Your “1000” club uses P&Y scoring, why not use SCI? If they grow it they should score it don’t descriminate with deductions!...P&Y doesn’t recognize crossbow harvests either...canvass them for change :). SCI puts everyone in the same class regardless of tool...support them! :) Don’t get started on people getting Doctor Notes who don’t need them... It’s only My opinion get over it :) LC |
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Out the left side of your mouth you say your not selfish, and out the right side of your mouth you say we are at a tipping point on percentages and more things will go on draw so we need to preserve that. The list goes on, if it's not the tipping point argument or the definition of archery argument then it's some other selfish based argument. Just keep bouncing around on these smaller picture points to deflect and delay. Missing the big picture completely. Archery, bows, anything that flicks a broadhead tipped stick off a string...is popular period and only getting more popular, and for good reason, it's hunting period, way more so than with anything that goes boom. We(read human beings) are the planets biggest virus...our numbers don't go down, they only go up, one way or another your tipping point argument will happen whether this bow/archery faux pas is corrected or not. This is about improvement to all hunting period. You are fighting the inclusion of a certain bow from our bow seasons due to selfish reasons, period. Having a one size fits all bow that can get close to equalize the proficiency of a 12 year old with a 30-40 year old male with 30" draw to an 80 year old in bow hunting situations is 100% beneficial to hunting. The more people bowhunting the better, period. And i say close in proficiency...the compound will always be the most versatile bow in the quiver and the most skilled compound guy vs the most skilled traditional or crossbow user will still be the most deadly out there. It'll be far more about the hunter than the tool, trying to pick fly shat out of pepper at that point of comparison. Boomstick seasons don't have this glaring difference. We typically hand our youth a modern centerfire with a scope good to 2-300 yards to get started there...not a 30-30 with iron sights. Although plenty of talented hunters with a 30-30 will easily out kill the newb's with latest whiz bang 800 yard wondersticks...actually many talented bowhunters will also outkill same newbs with the latest boomsticks. To leave the crossbow excluded from our bowhunting seasons just doesn't compute on any level when you put all the politics and agendas aside. So this is where you start. I'll get one as soon as the inclusion happens. Not for me currently as i love the compound and am very versatile with it, but for a variety of reasons starting with my kids first couple years, introduction tool to introduce friends and fam, for when i'm old and hurt, as a back up bow for the family should someone have an issue with their bow or injury mid-season to get by and still put the meat on the table and enjoy the pursuit while season still on. Bow shops can be super busy during the season etc. We have back up rifles now don't we? Three or four family members having a couple bows each or maybe just one backup bow for the family? Hmmm Anyway. I can see the conflict within you, you'll come around. Fingers crossed. |
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Put the quiet safe 50 yard broadhead tipped stick flickers together and call it a day. The world will be a better place. |
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Lol, I have already said if the time comes I cannot pull back the minimum required poundage, I’ll apply for a permit and go through the proper channels that currently exist.
For a guy who is so against crossbows (actually not against them, despite what you may think) that should make your head spin lol. I think they should look at current Bowzone expansion as urban sprawl has gotten larger...and I am cool with the Oct-Dec season that is inclusive of crossbows in the appropriate areas of 248, it makes sense to allow them in those areas to maintain harvest goals and do it safely with minimal chance of damage that can be caused by rifles. Anyhow that’s my final word on this in this thread, OP is a life member...mission accomplished :) LC |
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But maybe you are right that only one crossbow might not be sufficient back up for a family of bowhunters? Really if the family had enough bowhunters you might need two crossbows as back up as you could have a more than one issue with a bow, and or, hunter crop up in a season? Good point. |
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As far as the first part though...i get your obsession with one tool, one brand of truck, one brand of bow manufacturer, the majority don't get as ocd and singular about tools though. We are all however passionate about hunting, so we have that. Lump the tools where they make sense, the cart is supposed to be behind the horse. When you put hunting first the math is pretty easy on this subject. |
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What if the rifle hunters want 2 dedicated zones in wilderness areas with almost no residence but an abundance of wildlife. To even things up lets say. You would be ok with not being allowed in there with a crossbow or bow? Would the rifle hunters be selfish then? There is an accepted level of difficulty associated to hunting big game with archery tackle. Because of that accepted difficulty, special privileges are given to hunter who choose to use archery tackle; this is a very basic concept. Currently the "powers that be" do not consider a crossbow to have the same level of difficulty as archery tackle. Your own words speak to this... I'll get one as soon as the inclusion happens. Not for me currently as i love the compound and am very versatile with it, but for a variety of reasons starting with my kids first couple years, introduction tool to introduce friends and fam, for when i'm old and hurt, as a back up bow for the family should someone have an issue with their bow or injury mid-season to get by and still put the meat on the table and enjoy the pursuit while season still on. Bow shops can be super busy during the season etc. We have back up rifles now don't we? Three or four family members having a couple bows each or maybe just one backup bow for the family? Hmmm Everything you have written is a great idea, but it supports the argument that a crossbow is easier to use then a bow. Just like a muzzle loader is easier to use than a bow and a rifle is easier to use than a bow. Now once the "powers that be" change their views, which usually changed by coming in line with the public majority views, then maybe crossbows will be added to the archery seasons. And if you want to introduce someone to the concept of archery hunting by using a crossbow, that is a wonderful idea and luckily there are numerous zones and seasons that a crossbow can currently be used. |
I can't help wonder how much of this "need" for crossbows in Archery is driven by the outfitting industry? It sure would be good for business.
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Lefty where you be?
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:scared0015: Thanks for all the info, got me researching various clubs agendas, and now I don't need that spread in Piapot saskabush overlooking a beauty ocean front... |
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LC :) |
This could al be taken care of by getting rid of compounds as well as crossbows :)
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If mandatory proficiency testing would have been implemented 20 years ago we wouldn't be in this situation. |
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https://mywildalberta.ca/buy-licence...et-Jun2011.pdf |
Hunter dave shoul be the president of the alberta cross gun association! Then you could have 3d shoots and give prizes away like a new crank draw system, 4x scopes , bipods because thats the same as bowhunting? Give your head a shake ! Im for all types of hunting but dont try to compare the 2 !get your club startedand lobby for what ever you want but i doubt it would happen if you cant pick up a bow n practice , practice, practice!
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Learnt something from you too lefty, we might be on the opposit side of the fence on various discussions but we enjoy the outdoors, the hunt and the fact that a 270 is better than a 30-06:sHa_sarcasticlol: |
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What would the testing involve? How often? Where would you hold it? Who would administer it? Appeal process if you fail? Funding? Restrictions and limits? Licensing....... everybody loves licensing. There was 130000 hunter in Alberta in 2016, good luck. |
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These semantics have already been argued and the answers are already known. The big difference of opinion here is that you think all bow options are supposed to be more difficult to master and that is a good thing? Whereas there's a perfectly good bow option available that would make perfect sense for a good amount of people that really shouldn't be flicking arrows with vertical bows at this point but still are. I just happen to think that the option to have the bolt action scoped rifles will be the smarter choice for many vs the iron sighted lever action. Better for the game, better for the people, it's win win and you feel it's lose lose. Selfishness is the core reason behind that, not logic. |
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What would the test look like? Persons are already tested on the safe handling of firearms on the PAL course so is it an accuracy test only? What range would you test firearm accuracy at? What would you set the bar at. 3 round, 2 inch group at 100? 3 round 4 inch group at 200? What about the guy who only wants to use irons and bush hunt? What about the guy that wants to shoot at 600 yards but only qualified at 200? Should there be a safe handling course for bows? What range would you test archery tackle at? Would there be different requirements for trad vs compound vs crossbow? If I qualify at 40 yards and then shoot an animal at 50, is that poaching? What if I fail the qualification? Can I appeal? Is there a re-test? This is my knee "jerk" response....:bad_boys_20: |
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So what would the aim of this crossbow association be? To lobby for crossbow only zones to keep those pesky traditional archery users out? Maybe lobby to get our own allocation on draws to increase our chances? Since so many people would pick up a crossbow I think that 10% of tags would be reasonable. That would still leave 5% for traditional archery users. :lol: |
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Personally whatever it takes to fix our bow problem. ;) |
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If proof of proficiency is such a bad idea it would be interesting to see your list of reasons why. Listing what you see as potential barriers to effective testing is fine but those can be addressed. Similar testing has been implemented and proven effective in Europe and elsewhere for many years so many good examination models already exist. Where there is a will, there is a way. |
What would be interesting is if there was a proficiency test and they could compare the results from the vertical bow users to the horizontal bow users....
And I don't just mean those who pass but also those who fail... To draw a comparison to harvest success stats between those two types of bows, i think it would be safe to say that those who fail or however many shots land outside killzones depending on how the testing is set up... would qualify as another animal harvested...just not recovered due to improper placement etc. I bet the 1-3 percent differences you see between those two bow options would tighten up significantly if 'shots fired' outside the kill zones were accounted for in these stats. ;) It's a bow. |
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Maybe next time. Of course there would be logistical issues involved, but none that couldn't be dealt with if the will was there. As indicated, there are efficient working models already in place. |
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